Talk:Estates (Adrian Empire) - Revision history

Paul Matisz at 13:29, 17 July 2008

2008-07-17T13:29:29Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:29, 17 July 2008
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	:At the risk of spannerizing the works, they look to me a little like Guilds/Interkingdom Guilds in the SCA. I'm not sure there's a great structural analogue, though. Here's a question: the article says "has a seat on the estates" - what does that mean exactly? Clearly it means something about how they impact local governance, but how? At first glance, they do look more like SCA groups/branches of some kind, if only because they are explicitly defined. The problem with comparing them to SCA households is that SCA households don't exist in an official capacity and so the variations between them are extreme. While the estates might seem to resemble, eg. The Bloodguard, they certainly don't seem to resemble, eg. SharcPit. (Both linked off the [[household]]s page. ) Even there, though, the analogy is inexact, since many SCA households are interest-based. Did this help:-) [[User:AlexandreDavigne\|AlexandreDavigne]] 21:57, 17 July 2008 (EST)		:At the risk of spannerizing the works, they look to me a little like Guilds/Interkingdom Guilds in the SCA. I'm not sure there's a great structural analogue, though. Here's a question: the article says "has a seat on the estates" - what does that mean exactly? Clearly it means something about how they impact local governance, but how? At first glance, they do look more like SCA groups/branches of some kind, if only because they are explicitly defined. The problem with comparing them to SCA households is that SCA households don't exist in an official capacity and so the variations between them are extreme. While the estates might seem to resemble, eg. The Bloodguard, they certainly don't seem to resemble, eg. SharcPit. (Both linked off the [[household]]s page. ) Even there, though, the analogy is inexact, since many SCA households are interest-based. Did this help:-) [[User:AlexandreDavigne\|AlexandreDavigne]] 21:57, 17 July 2008 (EST)

			:I agree with [[User:AlexandreDavigne\|AlexandreDavigne]] that there appears to be no direct analogue between SCA cantons and Adriantic (?) estates, but I find the differences fascinating. I would recommend expanding on and clarifying those differences in the article (perhaps including a summary of the questions raised in this debate), if only as a demonstration that the SCA's way of doing things isn't necessarily the ''only'' way of structuring a reenactment organization. [[User:Paul Matisz\|Paul Matisz]] 07/17/08 09:29 EST.

AlexandreDavigne at 11:57, 17 July 2008

2008-07-17T11:57:56Z

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	:- [[User:Cian\|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:20, 17 July 2008 (EST)		:- [[User:Cian\|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:20, 17 July 2008 (EST)
	::Good reasoning, Cian. I've made my case; you've made yours. How do others feel? [[User:CsikosLo\|CsikosLo]] 10:30, 17 July 2008 (EST)		::Good reasoning, Cian. I've made my case; you've made yours. How do others feel? [[User:CsikosLo\|CsikosLo]] 10:30, 17 July 2008 (EST)


			:At the risk of spannerizing the works, they look to me a little like Guilds/Interkingdom Guilds in the SCA. I'm not sure there's a great structural analogue, though. Here's a question: the article says "has a seat on the estates" - what does that mean exactly? Clearly it means something about how they impact local governance, but how? At first glance, they do look more like SCA groups/branches of some kind, if only because they are explicitly defined. The problem with comparing them to SCA households is that SCA households don't exist in an official capacity and so the variations between them are extreme. While the estates might seem to resemble, eg. The Bloodguard, they certainly don't seem to resemble, eg. SharcPit. (Both linked off the [[household]]s page. ) Even there, though, the analogy is inexact, since many SCA households are interest-based. Did this help:-) [[User:AlexandreDavigne\|AlexandreDavigne]] 21:57, 17 July 2008 (EST)

CsikosLo: /* Households vs Groups for SCA comparison */

2008-07-17T00:30:59Z

Households vs Groups for SCA comparison

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:30, 17 July 2008
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	:So all this seemed to indicate to me that they were much more similar to SCA subgroups (i.e. shires, baronies, cantons, colleges) than SCA guilds and households (which are unofficial). But I had never heard of the Adrian Empire until you added it to Cunnan, so if you (presumably a member of AE) feel otherwise, I bow to your wisdom.		:So all this seemed to indicate to me that they were much more similar to SCA subgroups (i.e. shires, baronies, cantons, colleges) than SCA guilds and households (which are unofficial). But I had never heard of the Adrian Empire until you added it to Cunnan, so if you (presumably a member of AE) feel otherwise, I bow to your wisdom.
	:- [[User:Cian\|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:20, 17 July 2008 (EST)		:- [[User:Cian\|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:20, 17 July 2008 (EST)
			::Good reasoning, Cian. I've made my case; you've made yours. How do others feel? [[User:CsikosLo\|CsikosLo]] 10:30, 17 July 2008 (EST)

Cian: Cian's reasoning

2008-07-16T23:20:27Z

Cian's reasoning

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:20, 17 July 2008
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	I just changed back a revision Cian made and am posting here to explain it. Estates in the Adrian Empire are not comparable to SCA groups. Estates are boundaryless personal associations, more closely comparable to households in the SCA, altho' more formally structured. The equivalent to an SCA group in the Empire is the "chartered subdivision", which is addressed on the main Adian Empire page. [[User:CsikosLo\|CsikosLo]] 21:47, 16 July 2008 (EST)		I just changed back a revision Cian made and am posting here to explain it. Estates in the Adrian Empire are not comparable to SCA groups. Estates are boundaryless personal associations, more closely comparable to households in the SCA, altho' more formally structured. The equivalent to an SCA group in the Empire is the "chartered subdivision", which is addressed on the main Adian Empire page. [[User:CsikosLo\|CsikosLo]] 21:47, 16 July 2008 (EST)

			:I was just using the descriptions you had placed on the page as a guide, but the similarities with SCA subgroups I saw were
			:* The estates are officially recognised (SCA Households aren't)
			:* They have recognised ranks throughout the club (SCA Households don't)
			:* They have defined size/membership requirements (SCA Households define these internally)
			:* They have a defined role/seat in the executive arm of the game (SCA Households don't by default)
			:So all this seemed to indicate to me that they were much more similar to SCA subgroups (i.e. shires, baronies, cantons, colleges) than SCA guilds and households (which are unofficial). But I had never heard of the Adrian Empire until you added it to Cunnan, so if you (presumably a member of AE) feel otherwise, I bow to your wisdom.
			:- [[User:Cian\|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:20, 17 July 2008 (EST)

CsikosLo at 11:47, 16 July 2008

2008-07-16T11:47:13Z

New page

== Households vs Groups for SCA comparison ==

I just changed back a revision Cian made and am posting here to explain it. Estates in the Adrian Empire are not comparable to SCA groups. Estates are boundaryless personal associations, more closely comparable to households in the SCA, altho' more formally structured. The equivalent to an SCA group in the Empire is the "chartered subdivision", which is addressed on the main Adian Empire page. [[User:CsikosLo|CsikosLo]] 21:47, 16 July 2008 (EST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:57, 17 July 2008
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	:- [[User:Cian\|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:20, 17 July 2008 (EST)		:- [[User:Cian\|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:20, 17 July 2008 (EST)
	::Good reasoning, Cian. I've made my case; you've made yours. How do others feel? [[User:CsikosLo\|CsikosLo]] 10:30, 17 July 2008 (EST)		::Good reasoning, Cian. I've made my case; you've made yours. How do others feel? [[User:CsikosLo\|CsikosLo]] 10:30, 17 July 2008 (EST)


			:At the risk of spannerizing the works, they look to me a little like Guilds/Interkingdom Guilds in the SCA. I'm not sure there's a great structural analogue, though. Here's a question: the article says "has a seat on the estates" - what does that mean exactly? Clearly it means something about how they impact local governance, but how? At first glance, they do look more like SCA groups/branches of some kind, if only because they are explicitly defined. The problem with comparing them to SCA households is that SCA households don't exist in an official capacity and so the variations between them are extreme. While the estates might seem to resemble, eg. The Bloodguard, they certainly don't seem to resemble, eg. SharcPit. (Both linked off the [[household]]s page. ) Even there, though, the analogy is inexact, since many SCA households are interest-based. Did this help:-) [[User:AlexandreDavigne\|AlexandreDavigne]] 21:57, 17 July 2008 (EST)