Scotland - Interregnum - Revision history

Far-Bjorn: /* The Outcome */ sp

2008-08-26T11:42:31Z

The Outcome: sp

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:42, 26 August 2008
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	===The Outcome===		===The Outcome===
	Eventually the choice boiled down to Balliol or Bruce, and Balliol had already shown himself willing to bend to Edward's demands, whereas Bruce was clearly less ~~then~~ enthusiastic about an English overlord. Edward therefore declared [[John Balliol]] as the new king of Scotland, and proceeded to take his homage and submission, and returned south, assuming that henceforth Scotland would be ruled for England's benefit.		Eventually the choice boiled down to Balliol or Bruce, and Balliol had already shown himself willing to bend to Edward's demands, whereas Bruce was clearly less than enthusiastic about an English overlord. Edward therefore declared [[John Balliol]] as the new king of Scotland, and proceeded to take his homage and submission, and returned south, assuming that henceforth Scotland would be ruled for England's benefit.

	See also:		See also:

Far-Bjorn: /* The Judgement */ sp

2008-08-26T11:42:04Z

The Judgement: sp

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:42, 26 August 2008
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	By midsummer the claimants had been obliged, in order to get anywhere, to concede Edward's claimed authority (although 4 withdrew rather than submit).		By midsummer the claimants had been obliged, in order to get anywhere, to concede Edward's claimed authority (although 4 withdrew rather than submit).

	Of the remainder, Scotland being declared indivisible, and there being two daughters senior to his forebear, Lord John Hastings' claim was ruled out. Dunbar, Earl of March, withdrew his claim and was made Edward's Lieutenant for Scotland -- his wife, ~~Majorie~~, took the Scots side and held Dunbar castle against the English (In this way, no matter which side eventually won, the family had someone "loyal" to refer to). <br>		Of the remainder, Scotland being declared indivisible, and there being two daughters senior to his forebear, Lord John Hastings' claim was ruled out. Dunbar, Earl of March, withdrew his claim and was made Edward's Lieutenant for Scotland -- his wife, Marjorie, took the Scots side and held Dunbar castle against the English (In this way, no matter which side eventually won, the family had someone "loyal" to refer to). <br>

	===The Outcome===		===The Outcome===
	Eventually the choice boiled down to Balliol or Bruce, and Balliol had already shown himself willing to bend to Edward's demands, whereas Bruce was clearly less then enthusiastic about an English overlord. Edward therefore declared [[John Balliol]] as the new king of Scotland, and proceeded to take his homage and submission, and returned south, assuming that henceforth Scotland would be ruled for England's benefit.		Eventually the choice boiled down to Balliol or Bruce, and Balliol had already shown himself willing to bend to Edward's demands, whereas Bruce was clearly less then enthusiastic about an English overlord. Edward therefore declared [[John Balliol]] as the new king of Scotland, and proceeded to take his homage and submission, and returned south, assuming that henceforth Scotland would be ruled for England's benefit.

62.25.109.196 at 13:53, 6 June 2006

2006-06-06T13:53:51Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:53, 6 June 2006
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	In the aftermath of the death of [[Margaret]] of Norway, Scotland was governed by the surviving Guardians, William Fraser, Bishop of St.Andrews chiefest among them, to whom the prospective monarchs put their claims.		In the aftermath of the death of [[Margaret]] of Norway, Scotland was governed by the surviving Guardians, William Fraser, Bishop of St.Andrews chiefest among them, to whom the prospective monarchs put their claims.

	There were finally 13 claimants to the vacant throne. Of them, 6 claimed on the basis of illegitimate descent from earlier kings. The '''Comyn''' claim rested on descent from [[Donald III]] ''Donalbane''), and Eric of Norway laid claim through his deceased daughter, Margaret, as the grandchild of [[Alexander III]]. The remainder all made claims based on descent from Henry, Earl of Huntingdon, son of [[David I]], through his son, David; in each case, however, they then claimed through female lines of descent, not male. Thus the elder Robert Bruce was son of Henry's younger grand-daughter, whilst John Balliol was grandson of the elder grand-daughter, and argued for primogeniture over proximity.		There were finally 13 claimants to the vacant throne. Of them, 6 claimed on the basis of illegitimate descent from earlier kings. The '''Comyn''' claim rested on descent from [[Donald III]] (''Donalbane''), and Eric of Norway laid claim through his deceased daughter, Margaret, as the grandchild of [[Alexander III]]. The remainder all made claims based on descent from Henry, Earl of Huntingdon, son of [[David I]], through his son, David; in each case, however, they then claimed through female lines of descent, not male. Thus the elder Robert Bruce was son of Henry's younger grand-daughter, whilst John Balliol was grandson of the elder grand-daughter, and argued for primogeniture over proximity.

	David had married Matilda, the daughter of the Earl of Huntingdon. Their son was Henry who inherited the earldom, and married Ada or Adela, daughter of the Earl of Surrey.		David had married Matilda, the daughter of the Earl of Huntingdon. Their son was Henry who inherited the earldom, and married Ada or Adela, daughter of the Earl of Surrey.

Simoncursitor at 08:13, 13 June 2005

2005-06-13T08:13:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:13, 13 June 2005
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	===The Outcome===		===The Outcome===
	Eventually the choice boiled down to Balliol or Bruce, and Balliol had already shown himself willing to bend to Edward's demands, whereas Bruce was clearly less then enthusiastic about an English overlord. Edward therefore declared [[John Balliol]] as the new king of Scotland, and proceeded to take his homage and submission, and returned south, assuming that henceforth Scotland would be ruled for England's benefit.		Eventually the choice boiled down to Balliol or Bruce, and Balliol had already shown himself willing to bend to Edward's demands, whereas Bruce was clearly less then enthusiastic about an English overlord. Edward therefore declared [[John Balliol]] as the new king of Scotland, and proceeded to take his homage and submission, and returned south, assuming that henceforth Scotland would be ruled for England's benefit.

			See also:
			* [[Scottish kings]]
			* [[John Balliol]]

Conrad Leviston: minor format fix and link to Al III

2005-06-08T13:55:58Z

minor format fix and link to Al III

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:55, 8 June 2005
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	In the aftermath of the death of [[Margaret]] of Norway, Scotland was governed by the surviving Guardians, William Fraser, Bishop of St.Andrews chiefest among them, to whom the prospective monarchs put their claims.		In the aftermath of the death of [[Margaret]] of Norway, Scotland was governed by the surviving Guardians, William Fraser, Bishop of St.Andrews chiefest among them, to whom the prospective monarchs put their claims.

	There were finally 13 claimants to the vacant throne. Of them, 6 claimed on the basis of illegitimate descent from earlier kings. The '''Comyn''' claim rested on descent from [[Donald III]] ''Donalbane''), and Eric of Norway laid claim through his deceased daughter, Margaret, as the grandchild of ~~'''~~Alexander III~~'''~~. The remainder all made claims based on descent from Henry, Earl of Huntingdon, son of [[David I]], through his son, David; in each case, however, they then claimed through female lines of descent, not male. Thus the elder Robert Bruce was son of Henry's younger grand-daughter, whilst John Balliol was grandson of the elder grand-daughter, and argued for primogeniture over proximity.		There were finally 13 claimants to the vacant throne. Of them, 6 claimed on the basis of illegitimate descent from earlier kings. The '''Comyn''' claim rested on descent from [[Donald III]] ''Donalbane''), and Eric of Norway laid claim through his deceased daughter, Margaret, as the grandchild of [[Alexander III]]. The remainder all made claims based on descent from Henry, Earl of Huntingdon, son of [[David I]], through his son, David; in each case, however, they then claimed through female lines of descent, not male. Thus the elder Robert Bruce was son of Henry's younger grand-daughter, whilst John Balliol was grandson of the elder grand-daughter, and argued for primogeniture over proximity.

	David had married Matilda, the daughter of the Earl of Huntingdon. Their son was Henry who inherited the earldom, and married Ada or Adela, daughter of the Earl of Surrey.		David had married Matilda, the daughter of the Earl of Huntingdon. Their son was Henry who inherited the earldom, and married Ada or Adela, daughter of the Earl of Surrey.
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	* John Vesy, for his father Nicholas Soulis -- by alleged descent from a daughter of [[Alexander III]] (her legitimacy was, however, in doubt), who had married Alan Durward, Alexander's Justiciary. His wife may also have passed a lesser claim to him, by reason of being a Comyn		* John Vesy, for his father Nicholas Soulis -- by alleged descent from a daughter of [[Alexander III]] (her legitimacy was, however, in doubt), who had married Alan Durward, Alexander's Justiciary. His wife may also have passed a lesser claim to him, by reason of being a Comyn
	* William de Vesci -- by descent from Margaret, daughter of [[William the Lion]] (whose legitimacy was also queried)		* William de Vesci -- by descent from Margaret, daughter of [[William the Lion]] (whose legitimacy was also queried)
	* William Ross -- by descent from Isabella, daughter of [[William the Lion]] (again her legitimacy was		* William Ross -- by descent from Isabella, daughter of [[William the Lion]] (again her legitimacy was challenged)
	challenged)
	* Robert de Pinkney -- who claimed to be descended from a daughter of [[David I]]'s son, Henry		* Robert de Pinkney -- who claimed to be descended from a daughter of [[David I]]'s son, Henry
	* Patrick Galithly -- who was supposed grandson to [[William the Lion]], albeit illegitimate		* Patrick Galithly -- who was supposed grandson to [[William the Lion]], albeit illegitimate

Simoncursitor: More forkling

2005-06-08T12:21:15Z

More forkling

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:21, 8 June 2005
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			=== The Background ===
	In the aftermath of the death of [[Margaret]] of Norway, Scotland was governed by the surviving Guardians, William Fraser, Bishop of St.Andrews chiefest among them, to whom the prospective monarchs put their claims.		In the aftermath of the death of [[Margaret]] of Norway, Scotland was governed by the surviving Guardians, William Fraser, Bishop of St.Andrews chiefest among them, to whom the prospective monarchs put their claims.

Line 8:		Line 9:
	David's younger daughter was named Margaret, and she married Alan, Lord of Galloway. Their daughter, Devorguilla, married John Balliol, and his son, also John, through his mother, claimed the throne.		David's younger daughter was named Margaret, and she married Alan, Lord of Galloway. Their daughter, Devorguilla, married John Balliol, and his son, also John, through his mother, claimed the throne.

			===The Contenders===

	The 13 were:		'''The 13 were''':
	* Robert Bruce, Lord of Annandale -- son of Robert Bruce and of Isobel, daughter of David, Earl of Huntingdon		* Robert Bruce, Lord of Annandale -- son of Robert Bruce and of Isobel, daughter of David, Earl of Huntingdon
	* John Balliol, Lord of Galloway -- grandson of Margaret, eldest daughter of David, earl of Huntingdon, who had married Alan, Lord of Galloway, and born him a daughter, Devorguilla		* John Balliol, Lord of Galloway -- grandson of Margaret, eldest daughter of David, earl of Huntingdon, who had married Alan, Lord of Galloway, and born him a daughter, Devorguilla
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	None of them had anything which resembled a clear right to the throne, although some claims were clearly less prominent than others (such as the Norwegian one).		None of them had anything which resembled a clear right to the throne, although some claims were clearly less prominent than others (such as the Norwegian one).

			===The Judgement===
	The Guardians decided to invite [[Edward I\|Edward]] of [[England]] to take the chair at the eventual hearing of the claims. Edward agreed, but when he came to Norham Castle, he brought an army with him, and declared himself entitled to judge the matter as feudal superior and lord paramount of the [[kingdom]] of Scotland.		The Guardians decided to invite [[Edward I\|Edward]] of [[England]] to take the chair at the eventual hearing of the claims. Edward agreed, but when he came to Norham Castle, he brought an army with him, and declared himself entitled to judge the matter as feudal superior and lord paramount of the [[kingdom]] of Scotland.

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	Of the remainder, Scotland being declared indivisible, and there being two daughters senior to his forebear, Lord John Hastings' claim was ruled out. Dunbar, Earl of March, withdrew his claim and was made Edward's Lieutenant for Scotland -- his wife, Majorie, took the Scots side and held Dunbar castle against the English (In this way, no matter which side eventually won, the family had someone "loyal" to refer to). <br>		Of the remainder, Scotland being declared indivisible, and there being two daughters senior to his forebear, Lord John Hastings' claim was ruled out. Dunbar, Earl of March, withdrew his claim and was made Edward's Lieutenant for Scotland -- his wife, Majorie, took the Scots side and held Dunbar castle against the English (In this way, no matter which side eventually won, the family had someone "loyal" to refer to). <br>
			===The Outcome===
	Eventually the choice boiled down to Balliol or Bruce, and Balliol had already shown himself willing to bend to Edward's demands, whereas Bruce was clearly less then enthusiastic about an English overlord. Edward therefore declared [[John Balliol]] as the new king of Scotland, and proceeded to take his homage and submission, and returned south, assuming that henceforth Scotland would be ruled for England's benefit.		Eventually the choice boiled down to Balliol or Bruce, and Balliol had already shown himself willing to bend to Edward's demands, whereas Bruce was clearly less then enthusiastic about an English overlord. Edward therefore declared [[John Balliol]] as the new king of Scotland, and proceeded to take his homage and submission, and returned south, assuming that henceforth Scotland would be ruled for England's benefit.

Simoncursitor: Slightly messy insert

2005-06-08T12:18:22Z

Slightly messy insert

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:18, 8 June 2005
Line 1:		Line 1:
	In the aftermath of the death of [[Margaret]] of Norway, Scotland was governed by the surviving Guardians, William Fraser, Bishop of St.Andrews chiefest among them, to whom the prospective monarchs put their claims.		In the aftermath of the death of [[Margaret]] of Norway, Scotland was governed by the surviving Guardians, William Fraser, Bishop of St.Andrews chiefest among them, to whom the prospective monarchs put their claims.

		⚫	There were finally 13 claimants to the vacant throne. Of them, 6 claimed on the basis of illegitimate descent from earlier kings. The '''Comyn''' claim rested on descent from [[Donald III]] ''Donalbane''), and Eric of Norway laid claim through his deceased daughter, Margaret, as the grandchild of '''Alexander III'''. The remainder all made claims based on descent from Henry, Earl of Huntingdon, son of [[David I]], through his son, David; in each case, however, they then claimed through female lines of descent, not male. Thus the elder Robert Bruce was son of Henry's younger grand-daughter, whilst John Balliol was grandson of the elder grand-daughter, and argued for primogeniture over proximity.
	There were finally 13 claimants to the vacant throne. Of them, 6 claimed on the basis of illegitimate

⚫	descent from earlier kings. The '''Comyn''' claim rested on descent from [[Donald III]] ''Donalbane''), and Eric of Norway laid claim through his deceased daughter, Margaret, as the grandchild of '''Alexander III'''. The remainder all made claims based on descent from Henry, Earl of Huntingdon, son of [[David I]], through his son, David; in each case, however, they then claimed through female lines of descent, not male. Thus the elder Robert Bruce was son of Henry's younger grand-daughter, whilst John Balliol was grandson of the elder grand-daughter, and argued for primogeniture over proximity.
			David had married Matilda, the daughter of the Earl of Huntingdon. Their son was Henry who inherited the earldom, and married Ada or Adela, daughter of the Earl of Surrey.
			Henry and Adela's son was David, named for his grandfather, who also became Earl of Huntingdon, and who also married a Matilda, in this case the daughter of the Earl of Chester.
			This David had no sons, but two daughters. The elder, Isobel, married Robert Bruce, lord of Annandale, whose son, grandson, and great-grandson, were all named Robert.
			David's younger daughter was named Margaret, and she married Alan, Lord of Galloway. Their daughter, Devorguilla, married John Balliol, and his son, also John, through his mother, claimed the throne.


	The 13 were:		The 13 were:

Simoncursitor at 08:07, 8 June 2005

2005-06-08T08:07:59Z

New page

In the aftermath of the death of [[Margaret]] of Norway, Scotland was governed by the surviving Guardians, William Fraser, Bishop of St.Andrews chiefest among them, to whom the prospective monarchs put their claims.

There were finally 13 claimants to the vacant throne. Of them, 6 claimed on the basis of illegitimate
descent from earlier kings. The '''Comyn''' claim rested on descent from [[Donald III]] ''Donalbane''), and Eric of Norway laid claim through his deceased daughter, Margaret, as the grandchild of '''Alexander III'''. The remainder all made claims based on descent from Henry, Earl of Huntingdon, son of [[David I]], through his son, David; in each case, however, they then claimed through female lines of descent, not male. Thus the elder Robert Bruce was son of Henry's younger grand-daughter, whilst John Balliol was grandson of the elder grand-daughter, and argued for primogeniture over proximity.

The 13 were:
* Robert Bruce, Lord of Annandale -- son of Robert Bruce and of Isobel, daughter of David, Earl of Huntingdon
* John Balliol, Lord of Galloway -- grandson of Margaret, eldest daughter of David, earl of Huntingdon, who had married Alan, Lord of Galloway, and born him a daughter, Devorguilla
* Lord John Hastings -- grandson of Ada, youngest daughter of David, on which basis he claimed entitlement, at the least, to one-third of the kingdom
* Sir John Comyn, Lord of Badenoch -- on the basis of descent, through his mother, from [[Donald III]]
* Patrick Dunbar, Earl of March -- who had two routes of claim, the first as descendant of '''William I''' or [[William the Lion]], via an illegitimate daughter (named, almost inevitably in this saga, Ada); the second as unbroken male heir of the house of Dunkeld, descended from a younger brother of [[Duncan I]]. Added to which, his wife, Marjory Comyn, alleged descent from [[Donald III]]
* Floris, Count of Holland -- claiming through another Ada, this one sister to David of Huntingdon, with the added claim that Earl David had renounced his rights to the throne of Scotland, which therefore fell to his sister.
* John Vesy, for his father Nicholas Soulis -- by alleged descent from a daughter of [[Alexander III]] (her legitimacy was, however, in doubt), who had married Alan Durward, Alexander's Justiciary. His wife may also have passed a lesser claim to him, by reason of being a Comyn
* William de Vesci -- by descent from Margaret, daughter of [[William the Lion]] (whose legitimacy was also queried)
* William Ross -- by descent from Isabella, daughter of [[William the Lion]] (again her legitimacy was
challenged)
* Robert de Pinkney -- who claimed to be descended from a daughter of [[David I]]'s son, Henry
* Patrick Galithly -- who was supposed grandson to [[William the Lion]], albeit illegitimate
* Roger de Mandeville -- Whose ancestor had been another of [[William the Lion]]'s illegitimate daughters
* Eric of Norway -- as both father of Queen [[Margaret]] I and son-in-law of King [[Alexander III]] (not to mention already being [[King]] of [[Norway]])

None of them had anything which resembled a clear right to the throne, although some claims were clearly less prominent than others (such as the Norwegian one).

The Guardians decided to invite [[Edward I|Edward]] of [[England]] to take the chair at the eventual hearing of the claims. Edward agreed, but when he came to Norham Castle, he brought an army with him, and declared himself entitled to judge the matter as feudal superior and lord paramount of the [[kingdom]] of Scotland.

By midsummer the claimants had been obliged, in order to get anywhere, to concede Edward's claimed authority (although 4 withdrew rather than submit).

Of the remainder, Scotland being declared indivisible, and there being two daughters senior to his forebear, Lord John Hastings' claim was ruled out. Dunbar, Earl of March, withdrew his claim and was made Edward's Lieutenant for Scotland -- his wife, Majorie, took the Scots side and held Dunbar castle against the English (In this way, no matter which side eventually won, the family had someone "loyal" to refer to). <br>
Eventually the choice boiled down to Balliol or Bruce, and Balliol had already shown himself willing to bend to Edward's demands, whereas Bruce was clearly less then enthusiastic about an English overlord. Edward therefore declared [[John Balliol]] as the new king of Scotland, and proceeded to take his homage and submission, and returned south, assuming that henceforth Scotland would be ruled for England's benefit.