Becoming king - Revision history

Cian at 12:33, 13 March 2018

2018-03-13T12:33:24Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:33, 13 March 2018
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	There were various historical methods of becoming [[King]].		There were various historical methods of becoming [[King]] (or [[Queen]]).
	==Inheritance==		==Inheritance==
	The most common method of becoming King was to inherit it. If you were the eldest son, you would become King upon your father's death. It took a while for this to be formalised in a number of countries (e.g. [[William Rufus]] was not the eldest son of [[William the Conqueror]]), but it did make things easier. There was less likelihood of trouble if everyone knew who was next, even if he was an incompetent twerp.		The most common method of becoming King was to inherit it. If you were the eldest son, you would become King upon your father's death. It took a while for this to be formalised in a number of countries (e.g. [[William Rufus]] was not the eldest son of [[William the Conqueror]]), but it did make things easier. There was less likelihood of trouble if everyone knew who was next, even if he was an incompetent twerp.

Whizcuz: /* Inheritance */

2009-07-12T23:34:41Z

Inheritance

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:34, 13 July 2009
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	There were various historical methods of becoming [[King]].		There were various historical methods of becoming [[King]].
	==Inheritance==		==Inheritance==
	The most common method of becoming King was to inherit it. If you were the eldest son, you would become King upon your father's death. It took a while for this to be formalised in a number of countries (e.g. [[William Rufus]] was not the eldest son of [[William the Conqueror]]), but it did make things easier. There was less likelihood of trouble if everyone knew who was next, even if it was an incompetent twerp.		The most common method of becoming King was to inherit it. If you were the eldest son, you would become King upon your father's death. It took a while for this to be formalised in a number of countries (e.g. [[William Rufus]] was not the eldest son of [[William the Conqueror]]), but it did make things easier. There was less likelihood of trouble if everyone knew who was next, even if he was an incompetent twerp.

	==Election==		==Election==

Simoncursitor: /* Conquest */ 2nd example

2007-08-01T07:28:36Z

Conquest: 2nd example

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:28, 1 August 2007
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	==Conquest==		==Conquest==

	[[William the Conqueror]] pulled off this trick at the [[Battle of Hastings]].		[[William the Conqueror]] pulled off this trick at the [[Battle of Hastings]], as did [[Henry VII\|Henry Tudor]], by defeating [[Richard III]] in battle at [[Battle of Bosworth Field\|Bosworth]].

Cian: links

2007-07-25T04:50:03Z

links

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:50, 25 July 2007
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	There were various historical methods of becoming [[King]].		There were various historical methods of becoming [[King]].
	==Inheritance==		==Inheritance==
	The most common method of becoming [[King]] was to inherit it. If you were the eldest son, you would become King upon your father's death. It took a while for this to be formalised in a number of countries ([[William Rufus]] was not the eldest son of [[William the Conqueror]]), but it did make things easier. There was less likelihood of trouble if everyone knew who was next, even if it was an incompetent twerp.		The most common method of becoming King was to inherit it. If you were the eldest son, you would become King upon your father's death. It took a while for this to be formalised in a number of countries (e.g. [[William Rufus]] was not the eldest son of [[William the Conqueror]]), but it did make things easier. There was less likelihood of trouble if everyone knew who was next, even if it was an incompetent twerp.

	==Election==		==Election==
	You may be familiar with the [[Monty Python]] quote ''You don't vote for Kings''. It's not quite true. It is true that there was never a Presidential style election for a [[King]]. That would mean ~~peasants~~ got to vote, and ~~in spite of~~ the ~~best~~ work of the [[levellers]] the vast majority of the nobility would never have that. Usually it was a group of interested parties involved, as in the [[witan]]. For "interested", read "self-interested land holders who could raise a large enough fighting force to cause trouble if they didn't get their way". As well as the [[Anglo-Saxon]] Kings of England, Hugh Capet was elected as King of [[France]].		You may be familiar with the [[Monty Python]] quote ''You don't vote for Kings''. It's not quite true. It is true that there was never a Presidential style election for a [[King]]. That would mean [[peasant]]s got to vote, and despite the hard work of the levellers, the vast majority of the [[nobility]] would never have that. Usually it was a group of interested parties involved, as in the [[witan]]. For "interested", read "self-interested land holders who could raise a large enough [[army\|fighting force]] to cause trouble if they didn't get their way". As well as the [[Anglo-Saxon]] [[English Monarchs\|Kings of England]], [[Hugh Capet]] was elected as King of [[France]].

	==A King can make a King==		==A King can make a King==
	We know next to nothing about [[Hugh Capet]], which is a shame because he seems to be a very clever guy. He started a dynasty that lasted centuries without anybody noticing. Nobody thought that there would be a [[Capetian]] line of Kings except Hugh, who raised his son to the throne before his death. The two ruled in tandom. Hugh died, his son ruled alone. That is until he raised his own son as co-King. Several generations later nobody questioned that the French crown was hereditary.		We know next to nothing about [[Hugh Capet]], which is a shame because he seems to be a very clever guy. He started a [[dynasty]] that lasted centuries without anybody noticing. Nobody thought that there would be a [[Capetian]] line of Kings except Hugh, who raised his son to the [[throne]] before his death. The two ruled in tandom. Hugh died, his son ruled alone. That is until he raised his own son as co-King. Several generations later nobody questioned that the French [[crown]] was hereditary.

	==Conquest==		==Conquest==
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	===Notes about historical Kingship===		===Notes about historical Kingship===

	Although you couldn't generally become King by election, the only way to become [[Holy Roman Emperor]] - who supposedly outranked any King in [[Christendom]] - was by ~~Election~~ by the Imperial Electors. A copy of the Golden Bull of 1356, that defines and regulates the election, is ~~here ...~~ http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/medieval/golden.htm		Although you couldn't generally become King by election, the only way to become [[Holy Roman Emperor]] - who supposedly outranked any King in [[Christendom]] - was by election by the Imperial Electors. A copy of the [[Golden Bull of 1356]], that defines and regulates the election, is [http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/medieval/golden.htm here] ...

	The important Italian city-state of [[Venice]] also had an elective Doge, or Duke.		The important [[Italy\|Italian]] [[city-state]] of [[Venice]] also had an elective Doge, or [[Duke]].

	Another important medieval idea is what a King is ; a King is a Prince who is [[Sovereign]] in his own domain, who has either personally or by his predecessor, been invested in the title of King by the Pope.		Another important [[medieval]] idea is what a King is ; a King is a [[Prince]] who is [[Sovereign]] in his own domain, who has either personally or by his predecessor, been invested in the title of King by the [[Pope]].

	To be Sovereign means that a State does not have to answer to another worldly power for ~~it's~~ acts ; the city of [[Florence]] is sovereign, while the city of [[London]] is dependent on the King of England and thereby not. If a city or a state makes war without the command of another, then it is almost certainly sovereign.		To be Sovereign means that a State does not have to answer to another worldly power for its acts ; the city of [[Florence]] is sovereign, while the city of [[London]] is dependent on the King of [[England]] and thereby not. If a city or a state makes war without the command of another, then it is almost certainly sovereign.

	Note that some Princes who are not titled Kings, such as the ~~Counts~~ of [[Savoy]], are sovereign, as in no other Prince can lawfully command them ; but although they are Emperors in their own domain, they do not have the title of King.		Note that some Princes who are not titled Kings, such as the [[Count]]s of [[Savoy]], are sovereign, as in no other Prince can lawfully command them ; but although they are Emperors in their own domain, they do not have the title of King.

	The Lord of [[Milan]], Gian Galeazzo Viscounti bought (as in, for cash) the title of Duke of Milan from Emperor [[Wenceslas]] in 1395; he attempted to be invested with the title of King, but this was not granted by the Pope.		The [[Lord]] of [[Milan]], [[Gian Galeazzo]] Viscounti bought (as in, for cash) the title of Duke of Milan from Emperor [[Wenceslas]] in 1395; he attempted to be invested with the title of King, but this was not granted by the Pope.

	Another example of an elective Kingship is [[16th Century]] [[Poland]] ; after the death of Zygmunt Augustus, last of the Jagellonian dynasty, in 1569 they elected the French prince [[Henri of Anjou]] as King of [[Poland]]. This worked badly, especially when the noted party animal and hedonist Henri realised the limited entertainment opportunities available in Poland. He quit the job soon afterwards, and returned to France to be crowned King [[Henri III]] of France.		Another example of an elective Kingship is [[16th Century]] [[Poland]] ; after the death of Zygmunt Augustus, last of the [[Jagellonian]] dynasty, in 1569 they elected the French prince [[Henri III\|Henri of Anjou]] as King of [[Poland]]. This worked badly, especially when the noted party animal and hedonist Henri realised the limited entertainment opportunities available in Poland. He quit the job soon afterwards, and returned to France to be crowned King [[Henri III]] of France.

	==Becoming King in the SCA==		==Becoming King in the SCA==
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	===Drawbacks===		===Drawbacks===
	There are a few drawbacks with this, not the least being that certain SCA demographics are over-represented. This is probably not as much of a problem as some may think, as the first three [[reign]]s of the [[Kingdom of Lochac]] saw three [[Laurel]]s take the throne (two [[Queen]]s and a [[King]]).		There are a few drawbacks with this, not the least being that certain SCA demographics are over-represented. This is probably not as much of a problem as some may think, as the first three [[reign]]s of the [[Kingdom of Lochac]] saw three [[Laurel]]s take the throne (two [[Queen]]s and a King).

	===Argument for the [[SCA\|SCA's]] Method of Determining a King===		===Argument for the [[SCA\|SCA's]] Method of Determining a King===
	Surprisingly, one of the arguments that is sometimes promulgated for the crown tournament model of selecting ~~[[King]]s~~ and ~~[[Queen]]s~~ is that becoming King by [[right of arms]] is period. Certainly, it is true that many ~~[[King]]s~~ were crowned after having conquered a Kingdom, but none became King by winning a tourney.		Surprisingly, one of the arguments that is sometimes promulgated for the crown tournament model of selecting Kings and Queens is that becoming King by [[right of arms]] is [[period]]. Certainly, it is true that many Kings were crowned after having conquered a Kingdom, but none became King by winning a tourney.

	[[Category:title]]		[[Category:title]]

User 144: Reverted edits by 69.249.116.223 (Talk); changed back to last version by User 144

2007-01-30T20:12:28Z

Reverted edits by 69.249.116.223 (Talk); changed back to last version by User 144

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:12, 31 January 2007
Line 4:		Line 4:

	==Election==		==Election==
	You may be familiar with the [[Monty Python]] quote ''You don't vote for Kings''. It's not quite true. It is true that there was never a Presidential style election for a [[King]]. That would mean peasants got to vote, and in spite of the best work of the levellers the vast majority of the nobility would never have that. Usually it was a group of interested parties involved, as in the [[witan]]. For "interested", read "self-interested land holders who could raise a large enough fighting force to cause trouble if they didn't get their way". As well as the [[Anglo-Saxon]] Kings of England, Hugh Capet was elected as King of ~~france~~.		You may be familiar with the [[Monty Python]] quote ''You don't vote for Kings''. It's not quite true. It is true that there was never a Presidential style election for a [[King]]. That would mean peasants got to vote, and in spite of the best work of the [[levellers]] the vast majority of the nobility would never have that. Usually it was a group of interested parties involved, as in the [[witan]]. For "interested", read "self-interested land holders who could raise a large enough fighting force to cause trouble if they didn't get their way". As well as the [[Anglo-Saxon]] Kings of England, Hugh Capet was elected as King of [[France]].

	==A King can make a King==		==A King can make a King==

69.249.116.223: /* Election */

2007-01-30T16:06:51Z

Election

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:06, 31 January 2007
Line 4:		Line 4:

	==Election==		==Election==
	You may be familiar with the [[Monty Python]] quote ''You don't vote for Kings''. It's not quite true. It is true that there was never a Presidential style election for a [[King]]. That would mean peasants got to vote, and in spite of the best work of the [[levellers]] the vast majority of the nobility would never have that. Usually it was a group of interested parties involved, as in the [[witan]]. For "interested", read "self-interested land holders who could raise a large enough fighting force to cause trouble if they didn't get their way". As well as the [[Anglo-Saxon]] Kings of England, Hugh Capet was elected as King of ~~[[France]]~~.		You may be familiar with the [[Monty Python]] quote ''You don't vote for Kings''. It's not quite true. It is true that there was never a Presidential style election for a [[King]]. That would mean peasants got to vote, and in spite of the best work of the levellers the vast majority of the nobility would never have that. Usually it was a group of interested parties involved, as in the [[witan]]. For "interested", read "self-interested land holders who could raise a large enough fighting force to cause trouble if they didn't get their way". As well as the [[Anglo-Saxon]] Kings of England, Hugh Capet was elected as King of france.

	==A King can make a King==		==A King can make a King==

User 144: categorising

2006-05-20T12:29:43Z

categorising

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:29, 20 May 2006
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	===Argument for the [[SCA\|SCA's]] Method of Determining a King===		===Argument for the [[SCA\|SCA's]] Method of Determining a King===
	Surprisingly, one of the arguments that is sometimes promulgated for the crown tournament model of selecting [[King]]s and [[Queen]]s is that becoming King by [[right of arms]] is period. Certainly, it is true that many [[King]]s were crowned after having conquered a Kingdom, but none became King by winning a tourney.		Surprisingly, one of the arguments that is sometimes promulgated for the crown tournament model of selecting [[King]]s and [[Queen]]s is that becoming King by [[right of arms]] is period. Certainly, it is true that many [[King]]s were crowned after having conquered a Kingdom, but none became King by winning a tourney.
			[[Category:title]]

User 144 at 11:34, 20 May 2006

2006-05-20T11:34:56Z

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 The most common method of becoming [[King]] was to inherit it. If you were the eldest son, you would become King upon your father's death. It took a while for this to be formalised in a number of countries ([[William Rufus]] was not the eldest son of [[William the Conqueror]]), but it did make things easier. There was less likelihood of trouble if everyone knew who was next, even if it was an incompetent twerp.
-====Election====
+==Election==
 You may be familiar with the [[Monty Python]] quote ''You don't vote for Kings''. It's not quite true. It is true that there was never a Presidential style election for a [[King]]. That would mean peasants got to vote, and in spite of the best work of the [[levellers]] the vast majority of the nobility would never have that. Usually it was a group of interested parties involved, as in the [[witan]]. For "interested", read "self-interested land holders who could raise a large enough fighting force to cause trouble if they didn't get their way". As well as the [[Anglo-Saxon]] Kings of England, Hugh Capet was elected as King of [[France]].
-====A King can make a King====
+==A King can make a King==
 We know next to nothing about [[Hugh Capet]], which is a shame because he seems to be a very clever guy. He started a dynasty that lasted centuries without anybody noticing. Nobody thought that there would be a [[Capetian]] line of Kings except Hugh, who raised his son to the throne before his death. The two ruled in tandom. Hugh died, his son ruled alone. That is until he raised his own son as co-King. Several generations later nobody questioned that the French crown was hereditary.
-====Conquest====
+==Conquest==
 [[William the Conqueror]] pulled off this trick at the [[Battle of Hastings]].
@@ Line 41: / Line 29: @@
 Another example of an elective Kingship is [[16th Century]] [[Poland]] ; after the death of  Zygmunt Augustus, last of the Jagellonian dynasty, in 1569 they elected the French prince [[Henri of Anjou]] as King of [[Poland]]. This worked badly, especially when the noted party animal and hedonist Henri realised the limited entertainment opportunities available in Poland. He quit the job soon afterwards, and returned to France to be crowned King [[Henri III]] of France.

Paul Matisz: /* Election */

2005-10-14T13:46:45Z

Election

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:46, 14 October 2005
Line 15:		Line 15:
	====Election====		====Election====

	You may be familiar with the Monty Python quote ''You don't vote for Kings''. It's not quite true. It is true that there was never a Presidential style election for a [[King]]. That would mean peasants got to vote, and in spite of the best work of the [[levellers]] the vast majority of the nobility would never have that. Usually it was a group of interested parties involved, as in the [[witan]]. For "interested", read "self-interested land holders who could raise a large enough fighting force to cause trouble if they didn't get their way". As well as the [[Anglo-Saxon]] Kings of England, Hugh Capet was elected as King of [[France]].		You may be familiar with the [[Monty Python]] quote ''You don't vote for Kings''. It's not quite true. It is true that there was never a Presidential style election for a [[King]]. That would mean peasants got to vote, and in spite of the best work of the [[levellers]] the vast majority of the nobility would never have that. Usually it was a group of interested parties involved, as in the [[witan]]. For "interested", read "self-interested land holders who could raise a large enough fighting force to cause trouble if they didn't get their way". As well as the [[Anglo-Saxon]] Kings of England, Hugh Capet was elected as King of [[France]].

	====A King can make a King====		====A King can make a King====

Tiff: /* Notes about historical Kingship */

2005-08-07T16:31:03Z

Notes about historical Kingship

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:31, 8 August 2005
Line 32:		Line 32:
	The important Italian city-state of [[Venice]] also had an elective Doge, or Duke.		The important Italian city-state of [[Venice]] also had an elective Doge, or Duke.

	Another important medieval idea is what a King is ; a King is a Prince who is Sovereign in his own domain, who has either personally or by his predecessor, been invested in the title of King by the Pope.		Another important medieval idea is what a King is ; a King is a Prince who is [[Sovereign]] in his own domain, who has either personally or by his predecessor, been invested in the title of King by the Pope.

	To be Sovereign means that a State does not have to answer to another worldly power for it's acts ; the city of [[Florence]] is sovereign, while the city of [[London]] is dependent on the King of England and thereby not. If a city or a state makes war without the command of another, then it is almost certainly sovereign.		To be Sovereign means that a State does not have to answer to another worldly power for it's acts ; the city of [[Florence]] is sovereign, while the city of [[London]] is dependent on the King of England and thereby not. If a city or a state makes war without the command of another, then it is almost certainly sovereign.