Cunnan - User contributions [en]

Wattle and Daub

2010-04-16T22:55:58Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by Kiat (Talk); changed back to last version by User 144

'''Wattle and Daub''' is a simple construction method in which a fence is constructed by twining flexible sticks between (non-flexible) posts, and then covering the fence in mud. Wattle fencing is constructed in the same manner, but generally leaves off the mud.

The name 'wattle' refers the flexible wooden sticks, not to a species of [[wood]], and 'daub' to the process of patting mud on the fence. The species of acacia in [[Australia]] called wattle got their name because settlers found them most suitable for use as wattles. (cf [http://www.aussie-info.com/identity/flora/wattle.php] [http://www.worldwidewattle.com/schools/name.php])

The use of wattle and daub extended far beyond [[medieval]] [[Europe]], for instance the pre-[[Columbus|Columbian]] cultures of the [[America]]s.

== Wattle fences and Wattle and Daub houses in [[12th century|12th C]] [[Dublin]] ==

===Posts===
Some posts with fire hardened points, modern studies showed no anti-rotting benefit of this vertical posts- round, generally with bark still on, average spacing 15-30cm. Spacing is not bigger with bigger posts, but with a few very thin internal house walls it was smaller. Occasionally posts are paired, some could be repairs (unlikely - very awkward to insert), but many appear original, to strengthen weak points.
The ends of posts adazed to rough points

Posts extend 20-40cm below ground. But that may not be original reading (don't need to be that deep) - may have been weighted down by house roofs. They were hammered into position (not inserted in dug trenches).

===Wattles===
More lightweight walls - fences, walls as part of a double wall construction, used av 15-25mm diameter wattles. Heavy single house walls and other heavy uses, av 20-30mm. Thinner wattles required when posts closer together, or less gaps in weave required.
Wattles most likely derived from long term coppising, especially the thicker ones.

Woven behind every second post (i.e. in front, behind, in front, behind, etc)
In one wall lowest 3 strands (and probably top 3 on some houses) plaited together as woven to form a cornice. This known from other locations ([[16th century|16th C]] [[Flemish]], modern [[Ireland]]). The strip binds the ends together better, and was probably on a movable wall - more wear and tear.

Figure-eight shaped knots of wattle found - probably used to bind tops of more roughly made walls, joins in fences and for simple joints. (similar shown in ''Lutrell psalter fl63b'') Fibres are probably twisted as worked - prevents snapping.

In some cases Blackthorn was used as wattles in lower few rows of fences (not houses), possibly to deter vermin. [[Irish]] accounts ([[12th century|12th C]] story ''Aislnge Meic Congliblackthorn on fences to deter [[animal]]s.

''References

==Other uses==
* Basicly NO other uses

==Links:==
* Poplar Cottage http://www.wealddown.co.uk/poplar-cottage-construction.htm - is a [[17th century|17th C]] [[cottage]] constructed using wattle and daub, and also has some nice wattle fencing -
http://www.wealddown.co.uk/poplar-cottage-gardens.htm
*Winkhurst Kitchens http://www.wealddown.co.uk/winkhurst-reconstruction-dismantling.htm - a 16th C [[Kitchen]] outbuilding was deconstructed and moved. Here is a rare chance to see a genuine 16th C wall being pulled to pieces, and the wattles underneath.
*wattle and daub in Wiltshire http://www.tonygraham.co.uk/house_repair/wattle_daub/WD.html - a masters thesis
*links to examples including the [[Shakespeare]] house http://ah.bfn.org/a/DCTNRY/h/half.html
*This site claims [[Roman]]s pre-fabricated wattle and daub walls - http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/frames.shtml?http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/exhibits/hslondon/construct/walls.htm
*pictures of escavations of a wattle fence from a Medieval German friary - http://home.bawue.de/%7Ewmwerner/essling/english/karmel04.html

[[category:architecture]]

User talk:Tobin

2010-04-16T22:55:03Z

Tobin: /* A message for you from Lochac Masonry */

I've moved some old discussion to [[User talk:Tobin/Old (2005)]]
----

== Hi back ==

Thanks. :) I've been in the SCA a good while, plus I'm opinionated, so a Wiki seemed like a good activity. Besides, I think what y'all have here is really great. [[User:Sabine|Sabine]]

Also hi back! By the way, I just pointed our local mailing list at your site, as they were beginning to start a scrambled wiki of their own, and the wikipedia format just works so much better. So...expect an influx, as Carolingia houses a lot of knowledgable but...err...vocal people. ;-) -- [[User:Metahacker|Metahacker]] 11:22, 25 Oct 2004 (EST)

hi :) as we say on the wikipedia, "Be Bold" [[User:Tomislaus|Tomislaus]] 23:46, 10 Aug 2005 (CDT)

Thanks for having me, I look forward to putting in some worthwhile content. I'm concentrating on areas local to me for now, so Outlands will be getting some attention. --[[User:ThorgrimrGunnarrsson|Thorgrimr of Dragonsspine]] 17:41, 1 Aug 2005 (CDT)

==Projects==

Warning! I have taken youer name in vain.

On the new [[Cunnan:Projects]] page I have listed you as a participant in the [[Forme of Cury]] project, based on your contributions to that project so far. If you don't wish to be listed there please remove your name. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 03:47, 10 Aug 2005 (CDT)

== SIG invite? ==

You seem to be an admin. Do you think it would be okay if I invited the Slavic Interest Group onto here? One challenge is that I don't think that the SIG is limited to SCA people only. What's the cut-off policy between on-topic and off-topic here? The current page is http://slavic.freeservers.com/ and suffers from ads and lots of dead links. [[User:Tomislaus|Tomislaus]] 07:15, 11 Aug 2005 (CDT)

==Blocked User 210.....==
This person has spammed Cunnan --[[User:User 144|User 144]] 13:29, 13 May 2006 (EST)before in the exact same way. It might be an idea to consider a longer ban than usual.

== Thorgrimr's suggestion ==

Hi, I just got this message from Thorgrimr, and thought it was more appropriate for you:

:My jaw about hit the ground when I saw what version of the wiki you are running here, it's sorely outdated even for the 1.4 series. Might I suggest a significant upgrade (1.6.7 comes to mind) and installation of two extensions that will curb so much of your spamming traffic. The first extension is Spam Blacklist which allows you to list domains/urls that, when found in a article, prevent someone from saving the page. The second is called "Bad Bahavior" and it does many cool things, but one of the most important is to block a ton of proxy connection that are commonly used for spamming. I believe it also address spambots that can race through a wiki in no time. These are just so friendly suggestions from someone who doesn't visit Cunnan too often, but likes to see his images up on the front page, lol. Thorgrimr of Dragonsspine 22:27, 20 Jun 2006 (EST)

Cheer. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 10:44, 21 Jun 2006 (EST)
:Noted. I've got some time before uni goes back so I'll update Cunnan (as well as some other sites). Part of the problem with upgrades has been the versions of PHP and MySQL used on the previous server. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 02:21, 10 Jul 2006 (EST)

== A message for you from Lochac Masonry ==
Hi Tobin,

Apparently masonry@lochac.sca.org, the admin and assets side of the kingdom, wants to contact you but doesn't have Skype. Could you please tell them how else to contact you.

Ta,
- [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:53, 2 February 2010 (EST)

:I have emailed the seneschal now. I relaised that I haven't kept my site owner email address up to date. My bad. I'll also contact Del. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 08:55, 17 April 2010 (EST)

Cunnan:How does one edit a page

2007-12-12T22:17:42Z

Tobin: /* Minor edits */ remove spam

[[Cunnan]] is a [[WikiWiki]], meaning that anyone can easily edit any [[Cunnan:What is an article|article]] and have those changes posted immediately. This page is the reference for '''Wiki markup'''. You may also want to learn about:

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[[:Image:Wiki.png]]
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[[media:Sg_mrob.ogg|Sound]]

[[media:Tornado.jpg|Image of a Tornado]]

</nowiki></pre>
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<td>
<pre><nowiki>You can also write italic and bold
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:F = ma</nowiki></pre>
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ε0 =
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<td><pre><nowiki>Subscript: x2
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C&sup2; / J m.</nowiki></pre></td>
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<td><pre><nowiki>

&alpha; &beta; &gamma; &delta; &epsilon; &zeta;
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</nowiki></pre></td>
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<td>
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× · ÷ ∂ ′ ″ 
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∈ ∉ ∩ ∪ ⊂ ⊃ &sube; &supe; 
¬ &and; &or; ∃ ∀ ⇒ ⇔ 
→ ↔ 
(See also [[Cunnan:WikiProject Mathematics|WikiProject Mathematics]])
</td>
<td valign="middle"><pre><nowiki>
&int; &sum; &prod; &radic; &minus; &plusmn; &infin;
&asymp; &prop; &equiv; &ne; &le; &ge; &rarr;
&times; &middot; &divide; &part; &prime; &Prime;
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&isin; &notin; &cap; &cup; &sub; &sup; &sube; &supe;
&not; &and; &or; &exist; &forall; &rArr; &hArr;
&rarr; &harr;</nowiki></pre></td>
</tr>

<tr valign="top"><td>x2   ≥   0 true.
*To space things out, use non-breaking spaces - <tt>&nbsp;</tt>.
*<tt>&nbsp;</tt> also prevents line breaks in the middle of text, this is useful in formulas.
</td>
<td><pre><nowiki>
x2&nbsp;&nbsp;&ge;&nbsp;&nbsp;0 true.
</nowiki></pre></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td>
'''Suppressing interpretation of markup:''' 
<nowiki>Link → (to) the [[Cunnan FAQ]]</nowiki>
* Used to show literal data that would otherwise have special meaning.
* Escapes all wiki markup, including that which looks like HTML tags.
* Does not escape HTML character entities.
</td>
<td>
<pre><nowiki><nowiki>Link &rarr; (to)
the [[Cunnan FAQ]]</nowiki></nowiki></pre>
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'''Commenting page source:''' 
''not shown in page''
* Used to leave comments in a page for future editors.
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<pre><nowiki></nowiki></pre>
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=== Tables ===

HTML tables can be quite useful as well. For details on how to use them and discussion about when they are appropriate, see [[Cunnan:How to use tables]].

Cunnan:Administrators

2007-12-05T01:11:28Z

Tobin: Redirect stale page.

#REDIRECT [[Special:Listadmins]]

Bloodstone Keep Origins Ch 1

2007-12-03T00:04:52Z

Tobin:

#REDIRECT [[Canton of Bloodstone Keep]]

Bloodstone Keep Origins Ch 2

2007-12-03T00:04:02Z

Tobin:

#REDIRECT [[Canton of Bloodstone Keep]]

Canton of Bloodstone Keep

2007-12-03T00:03:22Z

Tobin: Merge content from Bloodstone Keep Origins Ch 1 and Bloodstone Keep Origins Ch 2

The '''Canton of Bloodstone Keep''' is the [[SCA]] [[group]] that comprises the southern portion of metropolitan Denver, Colorado, extending south from Hampden Street to Monument Pass, just north of Colorado Springs (Dragonspine). It also includes the municipalities of [[Castle]] Rock and Sedalia, Colorado. It was founded in [[A.S. XXXIX]] (2004). It is part of the [[Barony of Caerthe]].

For a more complete history of the origins of the [[Canton]], see the following articles written by the founding [[Seneschal]], [[Sir]] Schawn of Sterling, called "The [[Leopard]]".

==Origins of Bloodstone [[Keep]]==
As recorded by Viscount Sterling, [[KSCA]].

=== Chapter 1: Our first year of growing pains===
The origins of Bloodstone Keep from one persons view point. In late 2003 early 2004 there where several folks looking for a change and a place they could call their own. At Lady Mor's house, Finn the Archer was holding fighter practices. Early May Countess Adriana opened a door by asking that folks wanting to discuss the possibility of forming a Canton would like to meet. It was decided that on Sunday May 9th 2004 at Mor's house we would meet. Many folks from the east side and south of Caerthe did attend. It quickly became apparent that two Cantons would be more appropriate than one.

HE Kronos (Baron of Caerthe) was in attendance and place a few requirements on the two potential groups. First, provide the reasons in writing for why these groups are forming. Provide the Pro's and Con's of these groups forming. Lastly that a vote of 75% approval would be need for HE Kronos support these groups formation.

On May 23rd 2004 at THL Roberts and Mistress Eirene's House we had our first meeting for the group. The notes of this meeting were chronicle for all to read. Suffice it to say that we had an up hill battle with those that want to keep things status quo. At that meeting we decide interim officers for the group. We also decided that the first Wednesday of the month would be our monthly Business Meeting and at Bemis Library. The last landmark decision was this group would be "kid friendly" and kids would be allowed at meetings and all events.

As I remember this group was primarily folks that had moved from other Kingdoms or groups with in the Kingdom of the Outlands (several from al-Barran). Also many of the members had families and desired to have a safe place for them. At that time, for reason unknown, this was not a very kid friendly area.

Several other decisions where made during that early few meetings. Our group of folks wanted to provide an inclusive environment for all, that we are focusing on Heavy Fighting, Drumming and Dance, as well as A&S. Several members like the Pa d' Arms while others like a laid back fun event. That was what most of the members wanted to do and teach. At some point in early June, we got permission to start meeting at Corner Stone Park for our Populace gathering. As many of us had come from other places we want to have a place where everyone would meet weekly. The park was decided as the prime place for that. The populace gathering soon became the place to go to learn about fighting. His Grace Maelgwyn and myself regularly gave lesson and the numbers of fighters regularly exceeded 20 on the heavy field that first summer. People traveled from Dragonspine, Wind Keep, Caer Galen and Unser Hafan to participate. Things went well.

Other events that first summer was at the August 4th 2004 meeting we voted to have Bloodstone Keep and Readstad as a secondary as the name of our group. At the September 1st 2004 meeting we decide on the devise. The Griffin prevailed over the Yale. After much work by the officers of the then proto incipient canton and Lady Rothin, the Auto-crate of the Fortress Benefit Revel, did we have our Polling on September 25th 2004 it was 17 to 5 more than enough to pass the 75% mark that HE Kronos set. Thus, the stage was set for our merry band of brothers and sisters to petition the Crown to become incipient. Countess Aindrea, OP, came up with the wording for our petition scroll and Mistress Arwen & THL Guillume created the lovely scroll.

On November 6th 2004, at Crown II and Caerthe's A&S Competition, we the populace of the proto incipient canton of Bloodstone Keep did process forward in Court of TRM Giovanni and Cainnleach with signed scroll in hand. By Royal decree we dropped the proto and became full on incipient. By the end of the year we had our name and devise researched and in January of 2005 we had them in submission. We also made several ambitions goals for ourselves, like double our membership from around 40 to 80 paid members, and have two events and five demos throughout the year.

To that end we decide to have one fun silly event that became Mountain Mayhem on May 7th 2005 and one pomp and circumstance event that became Bloodstone Keeps Pa d' Arms on September 24th 2005 but that's getting ahead of myself. The iCanton had many trial and travails to go through in early 2005. In the end, things turned out, as they should. During that Period we started to change over many officers positions and some of the founding interim officers needed a break.

Another great Milestone for the iCanton was we voted the name of Heliotrope Herald for our newsletter. Lady Rothin then put out our first newsletter the next month with the new name. We kept on making news ever since.

In April of 2005 we did our first demo for the Girl Scouts in Highlands Ranch. It was a smashing success and many great things happened. We also started a Fundraiser for our List Field. By the time of our first event the iCanton was on a role and tons of folks really put on the dog at Mountain Mayhem. The Auto-crate was Viscount Sterling who swore he'd never do it again and everyone else really pitched in. This fun silly event turned into the 35th Year anniversary of the Barony of Caerthe. We had about 6 weeks to turn this around and make it happen. We rally pulled together for our Barony to make it Special for them. The Rothin Red May pole, the Dance till you drop Carrot Tourney, the kids stick horse races and the public Stoning with soft rocks made the event a real pleasure. We made enough proceeds to give our iCanton a fighting chance.

June 25th 2005 was a huge day for our iCanton. We did a four-hour demo for Bemis Public Library and m'lord Ximon auto-crated. Several folks stepped up all over the place to really make this Demo more that just special but rather over the top. City and Library officials were blown away by our efforts and they even gave a DVD of the event. Our renown is just growing.

We looked from June of 2005 on to create the best Pa d' Arms we could and several Demo's.

Thus ends our first year or so. Many more to come.

=== Chapter 2 ===

One person's point of view. We pick our story up in June of 2005; we have a very important Demo.
Our host Library, Bemis, has requested we be apart of their grand new opening. They pumped in some serious dollars to build a new facade and eatery. M'lord Ximon auto-crated this demo. It was his first efforts and it was smashing. They love us; they even made a DVD of the event & gave us a copy. Truly, a ton of fun for everyone who attended the demo.

Over the July 4th weekend we had our first encampment. Some of the fighters of the iCanton have formed a company called Aegis, meaning, "shield men" in Greek. We hope that all will join this group of noble fighters. There was two moments in time that made that weekend special for Bloodstone. First the march to the field in the newly made red & black tabard, by Mistress Eirene, turning head as we passed by. The second is marching to the Baron and taking a Knee pledging our support to the Barony. For more on this check out the story, "In the beginning, OMG."

In July we elected as a group to jump behind the Baronial Demo at Clemet Library.

The big thing for us was the wildly successful event, Pas d' Arms Auto-crated by Robert of Deerbourne. The pageantry, the chivalry, the gallery and the beauty of the SCA were fully displayed. Couldn't ask for more. Definitely a must repeat.

October 22nd we did a Koelbel Library Demo. This went well and we made our first $50.00 for a demo. They loved us.

October 29th - 30th several of us assisted in the long time demo with our very own Denver Zoo for our beloved Barony. We had a Boo of a time.

November 12th Lord Patrick and other did, at O'dark thirty AM, once again show our talented populace off for the Littleton Academy.

Some other wonderful side products of this hard work were many of our members have been recognized for their individual contributions. For me the success of our iCanton is on the many hands that make short work. They are what this is all about.

Many of our members took in the feats of the season capping with the Jewel of Caerthe, 12th Night. It was a Japanese theme event with Taiko Drums and fine cuisines.

The only down point was that our Heraldry was sent back. We shall try again.

[[category:cantons (SCA)|Bloodstone Keep]]

Cunnan:Village pump

2007-12-03T00:00:07Z

Tobin: Move out "old" discussions.

Cunnan:Old Village pump discussions (moved 2007)

2007-12-02T23:58:45Z

Tobin: Move in "old" discussions.

This page contains old discussions from the [[Cunnan:Village pump|Village pump]]. If you need to talk about these issues again please do so there and not here.

== Old topics ==
=== Content on Wikipedia ===

Those who remember when Cunnan appeared on a list of sites who used Wikipedia data incorrectly will be amused to note that several Cunnan pages have been transported to Wikipedia. Branle, trobar ric and pastourelle among others have all been taken across. In fact their page on the Branle was not correctly attributed. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 11:28, 26 April 2007 (EST)

=== Instrumental Music ===
I'm sure most SCA performers memorize their music in the best traditional fashion, but for anyone who doesn't have frequent contact with other ''jongleurs'' I have suggested on the [http://cunnan.sca.org.au/wiki/Talk:Instrumental_music Instrumental music] page that it might be helpful to post music in abc notation because
* it is human-readable with a little practice
* there is an extensive software base to produce hardcopy, edit, and play MIDI renderings
* there is already a huge resource of music in abc notation readily available
--[[User:64.9.120.91|64.9.120.91]] 00:32, 1 April 2007 (EST) aka [http://360.yahoo.com/kittybriton Kittybriton]

=== Spam flood ===
As anyone who looked at [[Special:Recentchanges]] today probably noticed Cunnan was the target of a group of spam bots who touched a large number of pages. The domain the bots were spamming has now been added to the antispam filter.

I've been through all the touched pages and have edited and saved the most recent useable version of each. Unfortunately, the spam bots unwittingly hit a bug in the software which means that the the page revisions before each of their edits have most probably been corrupted. If anyone feels like spending an hour helping to cleanup then they should go through my edits for the day and check that the page revision I restored each article to was optimal (i.e. the second most recent revision in most cases).

Cunnan's software has been upgraded so that the database corruption wont occur again even if the spam bots return.
[[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 23:35, 8 Oct 2005 (CDT)

* Hmm, it just happened again. I believe I have got rid of the spam, but it was done using multiple "machines" so it wasn't worth my time blocking everyone. Also some pages were hit multiple times. Rollback only works for the last action on the page, including rollbacks, so some of the fixes had to be edits. Nasty! I understand Tobin's problems the first time. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:53, 22 Oct 2005 (CDT)
** Three cheers for Cian! Thanks for doing the dirty work Cian, the fact that you and Tobin have done this is much appreciated. Given that this is the second time this has happened maybe it's time that we adopted a policy of only allowing editing for people who have logged in. It's not a foolproof defence I know, and it makes us feel less welcoming, but it would save a lot of aggravation. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 20:55, 22 Oct 2005 (CDT)
*** The most nasty wiki spam bots use a mixture of accounts and anonymous edits (the attack today and the first major attack are both examples of this). Forcing people to register only inconveniences humans. I've updated the anti spam filter to include the <nowiki><div></nowiki> id that the recent spam attacks have all included. Hopefully this will catch future attacks from this bot. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 04:57, 5 Nov 2005 (CST)
*** The two attacks I have "cleaned up" today all targetted the same files but the second one created blank pages. I wonder if they were doing so for a purpose? I blocked the repeating URLs which sometimes actually used a username. [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 19:40, 11 Dec 2005 (CST)
**** I've added some things from today's spam flood to the anti spam filter. If things stop working someone should tell me. -- [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 05:51, 12 Dec 2005 (CST)

*FYI the [[France]] page is currently showing up as uneditable due to the spam filter --[[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 02:41, 8 Dec 2005 (CST)
** I know, I'll remove ''that site'' from the anti spam filter when I've got time to do a general cleanup -- [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 05:51, 12 Dec 2005 (CST)

*I'm getting sick of not being able to properly use the word special-ist (without the hyphen) because it includes cial-is (without the hyphen). I seem to use the word (and it's relatives) quite a bit. Is there any way we can still exclude the pharaceutical (because that trick is working nicely thankyou), but allow certain words that contain it? special-ist special-ism, special-ists, special-istic etc. [[User:Tiff|Tiff]]
** Oops, my bad. I'll change the anti spam filter to require a non-letter character on either side for a match. Should happen after I'm back from work today. Have people noticed any other false positives? -- [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 13:15, 12 Jan 2006 (CST)
*** Should be fixed now. The new rule for c*alis is '''<nowiki>[^A-Za-z]c*alis[^A-Za-z]</nowiki>''' (with the * replaced by the appropriate letter of course). -- [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 01:43, 13 Jan 2006 (CST)

* I was unable to add a link to the Bordescros website hosted by www . freewebs . com / bordescros because of the spam filter. Can this be made an exception please.--[[User:MasterWill|MasterWill]] 06:49, 16 Mar 2006 (CST)
** I've removed freewebs from the spam filter. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 00:15, 24 Mar 2006 (CST)

* Not quite a flood this time, but the same pages have been attacked by the same sort of spam from various different "users". Is there anyway we can combat that sort of spam (other than the manual power of moderator's fingers) ? I have been banning the users for 2 weeks, but it really is pointless if they just come back with a new "name" the next day. Is it possible to prevent people/bots using usernames that are in the format of URLs (eg. 218.53.104.2)? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 08:49, 23 Jun 2006 (EST)

* I've just enabled two things that should help reduce the amount of spam we're getting. The first is proxy blocking using [http://www.au.sorbs.net/ SORBS]. This may catch a few legitimate users but that's unlikely (and if it does, well, they shouldn't be accessing the internet via an open proxy anyway). The second is [[wikipedia:Captcha|Captcha]]s for any edit which adds a URL to a page or changes an existing URL. For the time being the captchas are simple maths problems, e.g. "38 - 6 =" or "12 + 0 =". I'm going to e-mail [[User:Del|Del]] about the possibility of having the software required for image captchas installed on chiara (Cunnan's server). There may still be a few spammers which get through but this will stop the stupider bots and most non-humans. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 19:39, 22 July 2006 (EST)
** Just a minor thing about Captcha; when you come to the maths problem, and there's a link that should point to some information about why it's there/what it is, the link is broken. I think this is because it's supposed to be linking to the wikipedia article, but instead it's linking to cunnan?
- [[User:Asfridhr|Asfridhr, who has been too lazy to log in.]]

===Protected Pages===

*I have just protected a couple of pages that have been repeatedly hiit by a spambot. These pages are [[woman]] and [[convent]]. I will try to remember to remove the protection once that particular spambot has given up. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 22:22, 25 Jun 2006 (EST)

===Branle Dance Broken===

I've found that the page for the Branle dance is broken, both from searching for it and from the link for the dance page.

:[[branle]] looks fine to me. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 22:17, 25 Jun 2006 (EST)

I have tried it again and it's still not working. Specifically, I'm getting this error:

A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last
attempted database query was:

(SQL query hidden)

from within function "MediaWikiBagOStuff:_doquery". MySQL returned error "1062: Duplicate entry
'cunnan:messages:Currentevents' for key 1 (localhost)".

I am using Mozilla Firefox, the latest version (if that might make a difference).

*I can't interpret the technical stuff (I'll leave that to others, who i hope will log in soon), but it's working fine for me too, on a recent version of firefox. Maybe this is a timing issue - [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] and I are in the same timezone, and may be logging in a quieter time of day than you useage-wise. Have you checked 10 minutes, or even an hour later? We've had occasional errors related to server overuse.[[User:Tiff|Tiff]] 19:15, 27 Jun 2006 (EST)

=== Software Upgrade ===
Cunnan has been upgrade to version 1.6.8 of the Mediawiki software. If anything appears broken or acts weirdly mention it here so that someone can look at it. It's worth noting that there have been major changes to the database including conversion to UTF-8 encoding. This should have worked but some special characters may be messed up. You can help Cunnan by fixing them as you find them. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 19:12, 12 July 2006 (EST)

:All the unusual characters are out. I know that you've changed a couple of the AE ligatures on AEthelmearc, but there are lots of other characters such as the Forme of Cury recipes, and the Exeter Book riddles. I seem to recall last time this happened you were able to do a fix without editing every single item. Any chance of doing that again? [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 22:46, 12 July 2006 (EST)
::No, sadly, the newer version of the software requires the database to be in UTF-8. I'm at a loss as to why the conversion didn't work. I'm going to have another look at it in the morning but I'm not sure if it can be easily fixed. If it can't be then will just have to bite the bullet and fix problem pages manually. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 23:21, 12 July 2006 (EST)
:::Congrats on the upgrade! I hope you'll now be able to implement some of the extensions that help to address the wikispam issues. At mine, we ended up simply having to force a confirmed email address before editing, which unfortunately meant no anon edit at all, but since they only account for 1% of our contributions (besides spam) we went ahead with the plan. As far as you UTF-8 issue, I think it either has to do with PHP or with going from an early 1.4 version all the way to 1.6 in a single jump. I'm also working on the rest of the kingdom devices and their populace badges where I can. --[[User:ThorgrimrGunnarrsson|Thorgrimr of Dragonsspine]] 11:11, 13 July 2006 (EST)
: Why don't we just change them all to the accented letters etc to the &; forms, e.g. Æ and è They are charset independent. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 16:34, 13 July 2006 (EST)

=== Navigation links ===
The links in the sidebar to [[Current events]] and [[Cunnan:Site support]] aren't used for much at present. Does anyone have a suggestion for something they might be replaced with? I might send Del an e-mail asking if collecting donations to go towards the cost of hosting is possible. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 13:49, 13 July 2006 (EST)

=== weird characters ===
Hiya after a long time. I noticed on two pages, I was getting something weird - black diamonds with question marks in them. I believe in both cases they took the place of special charchters, like an e with an accent mark on top of it. I am using Firefox. [[User:Sabine|Sabine]] 06:19, 28 July 2006 (EST)
:Known problem. The database should have been converted to UTF-8 during the most recent upgrade but something went wrong. I haven't had time to try and fix it yet. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 11:41, 28 July 2006 (EST)

=== Content police :^) ===
I believe that one of the [[Cunnan:What isn't Cunnan|policies]] for [[Cunnan]] is that it is not to be used by groups as an archive that their own webpages/newsgroups can't manage. Therefore I am watching the pages for [[Bloodstone Keep Origins Ch 1]] and [[Bloodstone Keep Origins Ch 2]]. If too many of these sort of pages occur, we might have to make a policy edict about them. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:46, 10 August 2006 (EST)
:As they currently read the Bloodstone pages are OK, in my opinion. As long as they are only documenting events that have happened I don't think it's an issue. Planning events or using Cunnan as a genreal archive would be out though. The articles should probably be merged under a better title though. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 13:48, 14 August 2006 (EST)
:I'm not sure about these articles. They don't strike me as conforming to either the style or the content standards we should have in place here. I respectfully suggest that "Bloodstone Keep Origins" should more appropriately be an off-site webpage with links from the [[Bloodstone Keep]] article. [[User:Paul Matisz|Paul Matisz]] 09:57. 21 August 2006 (EST).
::As far as style goes, I agree with you. It is my own personal bias, but I think that Cunnan should aim for neutral point of view, non-personal accounts. I personally think that this level of content is great. I would love to see this much detail on every SCA group. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 23:29, 19 October 2006 (EST)

===Page of the Month===
You know, I think we could do with a new pages of the month.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 14:30, 7 October 2006 (EST)
:I agree, but what one?--[[User:ThorgrimrGunnarrsson|Thorgrimr of Dragonsspine]] 23:41, 7 October 2006 (EST)

:You can always add new proposed pages to [[Cunnan:Page of the Month]] (see bottom section). As to editting the actual [[Main Page]], it just needs us mods to get to action since we are the only ones who can change it. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]]

Sorry I haven't been updating it. I promise that if nobody else does anything I'll get to it for November. In the meantime, like Cian says, please put any good pages you see (or write) on the [[Cunnan:Page of the Month]] page. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 23:23, 19 October 2006 (EST)

===How Do I ... ?===
"create" a Category ?
We have a number of "wanted" ones, which could probably do with some attention, especially as the "wanted" ones show up on the list of "categories" without a hint that they are, in fact, inchoate ?? -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 19:10, 16 October 2006 (EST)
: I don't quite follow you, but I'll try and answer your query. If you edit the category to give it a possible description, then it will be able to show you what articles have been placed in that category. If that description is no longer accurate once you see the category's members, then either change the description or change what is in the category.
:If you want to start a brand new category, just put [[[[:category:NEWCATEGORYNAME]]]] somewhere on a page that is a suitable member for the new category. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:35, 17 October 2006 (EST)
:: Fine, so it's just a matter of ''describing'' the category. Good, can do that. Thanks, Cian. -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]]

===Proposed genocide===
Arising out of the above (and an attempt to do some categorising of my own work (thanks, [[User: Cian]] and others for your help in times past -- as you know them better than I, please continue) I have noticed that we have a goodly number of categories with only 1 article in them, and I was proposing to carry out a cull, especially targeting those where the category and the article are, effectivly, the same thing. Given that what I do, a more experienced admin can reverse, does anyone want to stop me before I start, or shall I hack away (discreetly) and allow restoration as wiser heads see fit ? -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 22:05, 20 October 2006 (EST)
: Not everything needs to be in a category. Personally, I think that there are too many, and some pages should not be in a super- and a sub-category , e.g. [[:category:people (medieval)]] and [[:category:monarchs (medieval)]]. So you have my secular blessing if it makes you comfortable. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 17:10, 23 October 2006 (EST)
::I disagree on the category/sub-category thing. If I am looking for weapons for example, I would like to have the opportunity to narrow it to pole weapons, or archery for example, should I wish. Sub-categories provide opportunities for finding articles more readily and also to include more inclusive article groupings.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 09:47, 27 October 2006 (EST)
:::I meant that [[William the Conqueror]] should be in [[:category:monarchs (medieval)]] but not also in [[:category:people (medieval)]], which the monarchs category is also a sub-category of. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:55, 27 October 2006 (EST)
::::If someone is browsing for people in the 11th century, but fails to find the monarchs category they will miss an important part of the people of the medieval era if they are grouped separately. Classification begins a the top and branches down in an inclusive, nor exclusive manner.eg genus/species, IMHO.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 09:59, 27 October 2006 (EST)
:::::Well, I've started the process anyway, and will csrry it through as best I can. -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]]
::New one... [[:category:cooking|category:cooking]] and [[:category:food|category:food]], which one should be a subcategory of the other? Does it matter? Should they both be each other's subcategory? What about [[:category:recipes|category:recipes]]? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:35, 22 November 2006 (EST)
:::I believe that cooking should be a subcategory of food (as not all food needs to be cooked but cooking always involves food), and recipes should be a subcategory of cooking.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 16:44, 22 November 2006 (EST)
ON an allied topic, I note that the category "people - modern" includes both mudane and SCA identities. Is it worth opening a category: "people -- personae" to distinguish ? Or is that too much faff ? -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 00:49, 30 November 2006 (EST)

=== Definition of category:people (medieval) ===
Umm, so now we are deciding that the [[medieval]] world ends at 1500? I'm afraid that that date is as vague as saying when the [[Renaissance]] starts. I think that we need 3 or 4 main categories: people (ancient)= -600AD; people (medieval) or people (period) = 600-1600AD ; people (modern) or people (post-period) = 1600AD -. I have no problem with the term medieval being used for the entire [[SCA]] [[period]] for the purpose of this category. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:54, 26 February 2007 (EST)
* There are many and varied viewpoints on when the end of the Middle Ages occurs. However, IIRC not one goes past 1517 as the end of the High Middle Ages (many have it ending during the middle of the 15th century). If Cunnan is meant to be a reference, then it should follow the standard definitions. Are we intending to change the definitions of other terms in order to provide further confusion to readers--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 17:15, 26 February 2007 (EST)
* Well, what I was trying to indicate was that I really don't care if people were from the middle ages or the renaissance. I just want to know if they were pre-period, in period, post-period or SCA/recreationist and I would like the categories to match that. While yes, Cunnan is trying to not just be an SCA reference, it does at least have a formally defined finishing date for its concept of "period". The conventional "epoch/era" terms don't. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:07, 27 February 2007 (EST)
**Well there are over a hundred pages categorised as people (medieval) that would need to be changed to people (period). I think it would be easier if we gave a definitive time frame for these times periods instead. It would certainly be much more expedient. How about 500-1500 Medieval, 1500-1750 Early Modern, 1750-1800 Industrial Revolution, 1800-Present Modern?--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 16:20, 27 February 2007 (EST)

===What do to with [[:Category:people (SCA)]]?===
I recently redirected [[:category:people - modern]] to [[:category:people (modern)]]. In the middle of donig this, I realized that most of the articles listed under this category are actually personal bios of people within the SCA. I then made [[:category:people (SCA)]]. In the middle of doing ''that'' I realized that [[:category:people (SCA)]] may be against what Cunnan is for:
::First and foremost, Cunnan should only be used for information that in some way relates to re-enactment of the period roughly between 600AD and 1600AD. Other information does not belong on Cunnan (e.g. Blogging, Advertising and debates).

So if this is the case, should all articles in [[:category:people (SCA)]] be removed? Or should it be simply culled to include notable SCA folks? --[[User:Sarah Van Der Goes|Sarah Van Der Goes]] 03:31, 29 June 2007 (EST)

* I believe some of those SCA people pages are there because they either 
# talk about people of note in the history of the SCA 
# talk about people of note according to the editors of Cunnan 
# talk about people of note according to [[Stormhold]], [[Krae Glas]] and the [[College of St. Monica]], the historical editors/creators of Cunnan. 
Sometimes, one person may meet all three of those criteria. The main point here is that whether we like it or not, Cunnan is very heavily tilted towards providing background info on how the SCA is run and that includes basic information on and history of the branches. That in turn mentions the names of "famous" people, like [[Cariadoc of the Bow]]. While the issue of who is "famous" is subjective, we obviously don't want to have a page for every SCA monarch there ever was, but some may have done amazing or notorious things that are worth writing about. 
- [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:06, 29 June 2007 (EST)

:I'm inclined to back Cian on this one. Having written some of the articles on notable [[Ealdormere|Ealdormereans]], I think a good criteria for having a Cunnan article should be a notable and ''lasting'' impact on the Society, at the Kingdom level at least. Having an award named after you, or an event, or starting something important (i.e. [[Cariadoc of the Bow]] starting the first [[Pennsic]]) or have who have contributed a huge volume of work to the Society (i.e. [[Cariadoc of the Bow]], for everything he's done ''since'' starting Pennsic). Just being in a Household, or because you're a friend of a Cunnan contributor, or something like that probably shouldn't qualify you for a Cunnan article. But if it's someone like Duke Sir [[Finnvarr de Taahe|Finnvarr]], a [[triple peer]] with four decades of notable contributions to several Kingdoms, then yes, they probably deserve a couple of paragraphs. [[User:Paul Matisz|Paul Matisz]] 28-06-07, 23:15EDT.
::This is fine with me. I'm very new to the SCA so I don't know many of the "famous" members that you all know. What I'm saying is I'm the worst person to try and cull down the amount of [[:category:people (SCA)]] entries to include notables only. Would either of you, or anyone else like to take a shot? Or shall we leave it to grow until it gets out of control? --[[User:Sarah Van Der Goes|Sarah Van Der Goes]] 01:07, 30 June 2007 (EST)
:::Yeah, I just took a quick look at some of the entries in the category, and I'd definitely say there needs to be a purge. Unfortunately, I'm leaving for the [[Trillium War]] in about twenty minutes, so I won't be able to do much about it until about next week. Most of these articles are [[ego piece]]s, and have no actual value in the database. Just for an example [[Thorbjorn Osis Brandsson]] is a ''good'' article, while [[Pustulio]] strikes me as being somewhat outside the tone we're trying to strike here. [[User: Paul Matisz]] 13:38 EDT, 29-06-07.
:::: I finally got around to killing all the "ego piece" articles. There are now surprisingly few articles on notable SCAdians in the category. I do apologize to the good gentles of [[Arrowsreach]] and the [[College of St. Monica]], but most of the articles I deleted were about minor SCAdians from those areas. While I'm sure they're lovely people who contribute greatly to the SCA, I don't think that Cunnan is the place for the posting of in-jokes and friendly ribbing. Certain other articles were amended with a not requesting clarification of the SCAdian's contribution. As I have said before, bios in the People (SCA) category ought to be those who have made a major and long-term contribution to their Kingdoms and the Society as a whole, for example, a gentle who founded a major Barony ([[Fionnadh Averylle O'Connor of Maidenhead]], who contributed greatly to the early years of the [[Barony of Rising Waters]] and by extension [[Ealdormere]]), or who started a major event ([[Cariadoc of the Bow]], who gets the blame for [[Pennsic]]), or who have done something very noteworthy ([[Kolfinna Kottr]], first female [[Knight]] in [[Caid]]). That being said, certain SCAdians who are not currently represented in this category ought to be, such as Queen Aislinn of the Midrealm. [[User: Paul Matisz]] , 13:14 EDT 31-08-07.

===Spammers (again)===

Personally I think it is high time we blocked all non-registered users from editing. While it will not stop all vandals it will stop the current illegible vandal spambot, which is no doubt running with very little effort from its sociopathic owner, but at great inconvenience to us. Most serious entries have either ceased, or are lost in the smog of illegible edits and reverts. While I empathise with Tobin's ideals about open access, it is far easier to destroy than it is to create and nurture, and one idiot has effectively tied up the main group of contributors. - Conrad?

: I have to agree here. It has become a little tiresome.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 01:47, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:I agree too. Set it to registered only for three months then see if the bots have stopped trying. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:38, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:May I register my agreement. Someone somewhere seems to have launched this attack, and I can only think that, if it is serious, then blocking the mousehole will comple the rogue elephant to beat down a wall, whereupon we will be able to see and perhaps identify him/her/it. -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 19:45, 19 November 2007 (EST)

=== Query ===
Excuse me, I think I'm in someone else's discussion, but don't know how to do ANYTHING. I want to know how to ASK A QUESTION. I got to "Cunnan" [I want to know what it means, too.] because I wanted to find out why the names of SCA people are often preceded by "THL" but I can't find an explanation for what it stands for. I also wanted to find out about "the Enchanted Ground". And actually, I want to know if there is a correct procedure for posing a question when the search button brings no results. I'm sure interrupting somebody's discussion is not the way. If anyone reads this, I'd be very grateful to find an answer here next time I look. Thank you all. (I'm hunting for an SCA contact near me, but haven't found one yet [Barcelona]. Thank you again.
: This is as good a place to ask queries like that as any other place. I will try to direct you to the appropriate pages:
* [[THL]] is an abbreviation for "The Honourable [[Lord]]" or "The Honourable [[Lady]]". It means that the individual has received a [[grant of arms]] from the [[King]] and [[Queen]]. Other abbreviations are also used for other [[award]]s, and some describe it as [[alphabet soup]].
* [[Enchanted Ground]] is an area at an [[SCA]] [[event]], (normally a [[camping event]]) that is formally or informally reserved for [[period]] encampments. This means that the [[tent]]s, [[cooking]] facilities and general appearance of the [[Enchanted Ground]] is more [[medieval]] than a standard campsite. This term may be rather specific to the SCA in [[Australia]] and it actually started as the name of the campsite of a certain [[household]] ([[House Unnamed]]) at the [[Rowany Festival]].
**I don't believe that is correct. Rather, [[Enchanted Ground]] was the brainchild of [[Duke]] [[Cariadoc of the Bow]] and first appeared, I think, at the [[Twentieth Year Celebration]]. He had proposed the idea, if the reference I found is correct, in TI #63, Summer of 1982. [[User:AlexandreDavigne|AlexandreDavigne]] 02:24, 14 November 2006 (EST)
* Spain is part of the [[SCA]] [[Kingdom of Drachenwald]]. I don't know if we have an existing [[branch]] in [[Barcelona]].
**Check the Drachenvald website - http://www.drachenwald.sca.org/Regnum/ - it appears that all of Spain is a single Shire, Alcazar de Brioga [[User:AlexandreDavigne|AlexandreDavigne]] 02:45, 14 November 2006 (EST)
* For the meaning, click on [[Cunnan]].
: Hope that all helps - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:54, 13 November 2006 (EST)
Thank you all - I'm the original uneducated enquirer. I think you have all answered everything. Except I haven't found anybody in Barcelona, yet. (I speak Catalan, but not Castilian, and I'm not very interested in the Spanish-speaking middle ages... I'd rather use my French or even struggle with Latin. So I'm hunting for some Catalan anachronists.) Thanks. Sorry to be anonymous, but I'm not anybody, yet.

=== Proper adjectives and proper nouns===
Okay, this is a linguist talking. The word "[[French]]" has a multitude of meanings and ways in which it is in the [[English]] [[language]]. As a noun it refers to a [[language]] and a group of people (a nationality). As an adjective, it refers to things associated with the group of people or the country [[France]] or the language, e.g. a French castle, the French language, his French wife, a French verb. That is how things work in the English language for the word "French".

Up til now, [[Cunnan]] has restricted the page [[French]] to only be for the [[language]]. I have made sure that any links for the people etc have always been [France|French]. Likewise was done for [England|English], [Germany|German] etc. The article with the proper adjective is only for the language.

[[User:AlexandreDavigne| AlexandreDavigne]] has started adding a disambiguation section to [[English]] and [[French]]. This does not sit well with me. I feel that it doesn't need a disambiguation section. It doesn't need a disambiguation anything. If you want to know about the Germans, you go to [[Germany]]. If you want to know about the French, you got to [[France]]. If you want to know about specific French, you go to [[Frank]] or [[Gaul]] etc.

I thought it would be best to ask the rest of you before I undid Alexandre's otherwise fine work. If you have disambiguations for one proper noun/adjective, we will (for consistancies sake) have to add them to all. Do we really need such disambiguations?
- [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:12, 8 November 2006 (EST)

Given the way that English works in common usage, I'd suggest that if disambiguation is deemed unneccessary (or simply redundant), then at the very least a link to the appropriate section be included with an appropriate explanation. I can see a case to be made for either approach, but I think just leaving it unaddressed is begging for folks like me to step in and cause this kind of conversation to happen:-) [[User:AlexandreDavigne|AlexandreDavigne]] 12:00, 8 November 2006 (EST)

:I personally dislike pages with multiple definitions. I would prefer to see an italicised headnote along the lines of ''This article refers to the French language. For other uses of the word ''French'' see [[France]] and [[kiss]]ing.'' This of course is a matter of personal preference and I am happy to go for what most people feel is better. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 22:55, 13 November 2006 (EST)

::That would work for me - -I just think that leaving it unaddressed is not a particularly good idea; if I (or many folk, I suspect) enter "the French" in the search box, I would expect to find an article about the French people. As I say, your solution works for me (although I don't particularly dislike mutliple definition pages. I don't really care one way or the other). [[User:AlexandreDavigne|AlexandreDavigne]] 00:14, 14 November 2006 (EST)
=== Spammers ===
For at least the second time we have been spammed by someone using a graphic claiming to be from WwW.The-SaboTage.Org and a graphic called rozetgd2.jpg. Is there any way we can filter out any edits that include these terms or file? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:04, 28 February 2007 (EST)
:Yes, it can be added to the spam filter. I'm about to dash off to work but I've put it on my to-do list. Should happen late tonight, early tomorrow. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 14:20, 1 March 2007 (EST)
:Can we add user IP 209.158.163.14? I am back tracking the damage they did. : [[User:Candrade|Carlos Nieto de Andrade]] 12:58, 28 March 2007 (EST)
=== The Ampersand Bandits ===
For a number of weeks Cunnan has been hit by vandals from a variety of URLs that seem to be deleting any content following ampersands, as well as modifying non-English alphabet characters (which often need to updated anyway). Is there any way we can stop this happening? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:32, 14 June 2007 (EST)

Ha! take a look at the log for tonight (June 16th)! [[Barony of Rowany]] vandalized at 21:27, corrected at 21:27, and Vandal 221.16.136.97 banned at 21:28. Rather like potting grouse on the wing, what? [[User:Paul Matisz]] 2007-06-16 21:39EDT

:So who are these guys, anyway? Correcting these attacks, I sometimes feel like King Canute, trying to hold back the tide with a word. [[User:Paul Matisz]] 2007-06-22 20:37EDT

On 1 Sept we suffered a major attach by Ampersand Vandals from a number of different IP addresses, some of which altered several articles apiece. I dished out a round of 3-month bans and rollbacks, but be aware that our problems of earlier this year may be returning. [[User: Paul Matisz]] 200-09-01 23:30EDT

Cunnan:Village pump

2007-12-02T23:56:19Z

Tobin: /* Announcements */ Moved pages for 2007

In [[Medieval]] [[village]]s people would gather at the '''Village Pump''' to discuss those items that were important to their lives. On [[Cunnan]] the Village Pump serves a similar purpose: Giving users a place to meet and discuss current events, policy and content.
----

== Announcements ==
* Some of the old Village pump articles have been moved to save space:
** [[Cunnan:Old Village pump discussions (moved 2003)|Moved during 2003]]
** [[Cunnan:Old Village pump discussions (moved 2004)|Moved during 2004]]
** [[Cunnan:Old Village pump discussions (moved 2005)|Moved during 2005]]
** [[Cunnan:Old Village pump discussions (moved 2006)|Moved during 2006]]
** [[Cunnan:Old Village pump discussions (moved 2007)|Moved during 2007]]

== Topics ==

=== Content on Wikipedia ===

Those who remember when Cunnan appeared on a list of sites who used Wikipedia data incorrectly will be amused to note that several Cunnan pages have been transported to Wikipedia. Branle, trobar ric and pastourelle among others have all been taken across. In fact their page on the Branle was not correctly attributed. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 11:28, 26 April 2007 (EST)

=== Instrumental Music ===
I'm sure most SCA performers memorize their music in the best traditional fashion, but for anyone who doesn't have frequent contact with other ''jongleurs'' I have suggested on the [http://cunnan.sca.org.au/wiki/Talk:Instrumental_music Instrumental music] page that it might be helpful to post music in abc notation because
* it is human-readable with a little practice
* there is an extensive software base to produce hardcopy, edit, and play MIDI renderings
* there is already a huge resource of music in abc notation readily available
--[[User:64.9.120.91|64.9.120.91]] 00:32, 1 April 2007 (EST) aka [http://360.yahoo.com/kittybriton Kittybriton]

=== Spam flood ===
As anyone who looked at [[Special:Recentchanges]] today probably noticed Cunnan was the target of a group of spam bots who touched a large number of pages. The domain the bots were spamming has now been added to the antispam filter.

I've been through all the touched pages and have edited and saved the most recent useable version of each. Unfortunately, the spam bots unwittingly hit a bug in the software which means that the the page revisions before each of their edits have most probably been corrupted. If anyone feels like spending an hour helping to cleanup then they should go through my edits for the day and check that the page revision I restored each article to was optimal (i.e. the second most recent revision in most cases).

Cunnan's software has been upgraded so that the database corruption wont occur again even if the spam bots return.
[[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 23:35, 8 Oct 2005 (CDT)

* Hmm, it just happened again. I believe I have got rid of the spam, but it was done using multiple "machines" so it wasn't worth my time blocking everyone. Also some pages were hit multiple times. Rollback only works for the last action on the page, including rollbacks, so some of the fixes had to be edits. Nasty! I understand Tobin's problems the first time. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:53, 22 Oct 2005 (CDT)
** Three cheers for Cian! Thanks for doing the dirty work Cian, the fact that you and Tobin have done this is much appreciated. Given that this is the second time this has happened maybe it's time that we adopted a policy of only allowing editing for people who have logged in. It's not a foolproof defence I know, and it makes us feel less welcoming, but it would save a lot of aggravation. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 20:55, 22 Oct 2005 (CDT)
*** The most nasty wiki spam bots use a mixture of accounts and anonymous edits (the attack today and the first major attack are both examples of this). Forcing people to register only inconveniences humans. I've updated the anti spam filter to include the <nowiki><div></nowiki> id that the recent spam attacks have all included. Hopefully this will catch future attacks from this bot. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 04:57, 5 Nov 2005 (CST)
*** The two attacks I have "cleaned up" today all targetted the same files but the second one created blank pages. I wonder if they were doing so for a purpose? I blocked the repeating URLs which sometimes actually used a username. [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 19:40, 11 Dec 2005 (CST)
**** I've added some things from today's spam flood to the anti spam filter. If things stop working someone should tell me. -- [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 05:51, 12 Dec 2005 (CST)

*FYI the [[France]] page is currently showing up as uneditable due to the spam filter --[[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 02:41, 8 Dec 2005 (CST)
** I know, I'll remove ''that site'' from the anti spam filter when I've got time to do a general cleanup -- [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 05:51, 12 Dec 2005 (CST)

*I'm getting sick of not being able to properly use the word special-ist (without the hyphen) because it includes cial-is (without the hyphen). I seem to use the word (and it's relatives) quite a bit. Is there any way we can still exclude the pharaceutical (because that trick is working nicely thankyou), but allow certain words that contain it? special-ist special-ism, special-ists, special-istic etc. [[User:Tiff|Tiff]]
** Oops, my bad. I'll change the anti spam filter to require a non-letter character on either side for a match. Should happen after I'm back from work today. Have people noticed any other false positives? -- [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 13:15, 12 Jan 2006 (CST)
*** Should be fixed now. The new rule for c*alis is '''<nowiki>[^A-Za-z]c*alis[^A-Za-z]</nowiki>''' (with the * replaced by the appropriate letter of course). -- [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 01:43, 13 Jan 2006 (CST)

* I was unable to add a link to the Bordescros website hosted by www . freewebs . com / bordescros because of the spam filter. Can this be made an exception please.--[[User:MasterWill|MasterWill]] 06:49, 16 Mar 2006 (CST)
** I've removed freewebs from the spam filter. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 00:15, 24 Mar 2006 (CST)

* Not quite a flood this time, but the same pages have been attacked by the same sort of spam from various different "users". Is there anyway we can combat that sort of spam (other than the manual power of moderator's fingers) ? I have been banning the users for 2 weeks, but it really is pointless if they just come back with a new "name" the next day. Is it possible to prevent people/bots using usernames that are in the format of URLs (eg. 218.53.104.2)? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 08:49, 23 Jun 2006 (EST)

* I've just enabled two things that should help reduce the amount of spam we're getting. The first is proxy blocking using [http://www.au.sorbs.net/ SORBS]. This may catch a few legitimate users but that's unlikely (and if it does, well, they shouldn't be accessing the internet via an open proxy anyway). The second is [[wikipedia:Captcha|Captcha]]s for any edit which adds a URL to a page or changes an existing URL. For the time being the captchas are simple maths problems, e.g. "38 - 6 =" or "12 + 0 =". I'm going to e-mail [[User:Del|Del]] about the possibility of having the software required for image captchas installed on chiara (Cunnan's server). There may still be a few spammers which get through but this will stop the stupider bots and most non-humans. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 19:39, 22 July 2006 (EST)
** Just a minor thing about Captcha; when you come to the maths problem, and there's a link that should point to some information about why it's there/what it is, the link is broken. I think this is because it's supposed to be linking to the wikipedia article, but instead it's linking to cunnan?
- [[User:Asfridhr|Asfridhr, who has been too lazy to log in.]]

===Protected Pages===

*I have just protected a couple of pages that have been repeatedly hiit by a spambot. These pages are [[woman]] and [[convent]]. I will try to remember to remove the protection once that particular spambot has given up. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 22:22, 25 Jun 2006 (EST)

===Branle Dance Broken===

I've found that the page for the Branle dance is broken, both from searching for it and from the link for the dance page.

:[[branle]] looks fine to me. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 22:17, 25 Jun 2006 (EST)

I have tried it again and it's still not working. Specifically, I'm getting this error:

A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last
attempted database query was:

(SQL query hidden)

from within function "MediaWikiBagOStuff:_doquery". MySQL returned error "1062: Duplicate entry
'cunnan:messages:Currentevents' for key 1 (localhost)".

I am using Mozilla Firefox, the latest version (if that might make a difference).

*I can't interpret the technical stuff (I'll leave that to others, who i hope will log in soon), but it's working fine for me too, on a recent version of firefox. Maybe this is a timing issue - [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] and I are in the same timezone, and may be logging in a quieter time of day than you useage-wise. Have you checked 10 minutes, or even an hour later? We've had occasional errors related to server overuse.[[User:Tiff|Tiff]] 19:15, 27 Jun 2006 (EST)

=== Software Upgrade ===
Cunnan has been upgrade to version 1.6.8 of the Mediawiki software. If anything appears broken or acts weirdly mention it here so that someone can look at it. It's worth noting that there have been major changes to the database including conversion to UTF-8 encoding. This should have worked but some special characters may be messed up. You can help Cunnan by fixing them as you find them. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 19:12, 12 July 2006 (EST)

:All the unusual characters are out. I know that you've changed a couple of the AE ligatures on AEthelmearc, but there are lots of other characters such as the Forme of Cury recipes, and the Exeter Book riddles. I seem to recall last time this happened you were able to do a fix without editing every single item. Any chance of doing that again? [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 22:46, 12 July 2006 (EST)
::No, sadly, the newer version of the software requires the database to be in UTF-8. I'm at a loss as to why the conversion didn't work. I'm going to have another look at it in the morning but I'm not sure if it can be easily fixed. If it can't be then will just have to bite the bullet and fix problem pages manually. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 23:21, 12 July 2006 (EST)
:::Congrats on the upgrade! I hope you'll now be able to implement some of the extensions that help to address the wikispam issues. At mine, we ended up simply having to force a confirmed email address before editing, which unfortunately meant no anon edit at all, but since they only account for 1% of our contributions (besides spam) we went ahead with the plan. As far as you UTF-8 issue, I think it either has to do with PHP or with going from an early 1.4 version all the way to 1.6 in a single jump. I'm also working on the rest of the kingdom devices and their populace badges where I can. --[[User:ThorgrimrGunnarrsson|Thorgrimr of Dragonsspine]] 11:11, 13 July 2006 (EST)
: Why don't we just change them all to the accented letters etc to the &; forms, e.g. Æ and è They are charset independent. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 16:34, 13 July 2006 (EST)

=== Navigation links ===
The links in the sidebar to [[Current events]] and [[Cunnan:Site support]] aren't used for much at present. Does anyone have a suggestion for something they might be replaced with? I might send Del an e-mail asking if collecting donations to go towards the cost of hosting is possible. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 13:49, 13 July 2006 (EST)

=== weird characters ===
Hiya after a long time. I noticed on two pages, I was getting something weird - black diamonds with question marks in them. I believe in both cases they took the place of special charchters, like an e with an accent mark on top of it. I am using Firefox. [[User:Sabine|Sabine]] 06:19, 28 July 2006 (EST)
:Known problem. The database should have been converted to UTF-8 during the most recent upgrade but something went wrong. I haven't had time to try and fix it yet. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 11:41, 28 July 2006 (EST)

=== Content police :^) ===
I believe that one of the [[Cunnan:What isn't Cunnan|policies]] for [[Cunnan]] is that it is not to be used by groups as an archive that their own webpages/newsgroups can't manage. Therefore I am watching the pages for [[Bloodstone Keep Origins Ch 1]] and [[Bloodstone Keep Origins Ch 2]]. If too many of these sort of pages occur, we might have to make a policy edict about them. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:46, 10 August 2006 (EST)
:As they currently read the Bloodstone pages are OK, in my opinion. As long as they are only documenting events that have happened I don't think it's an issue. Planning events or using Cunnan as a genreal archive would be out though. The articles should probably be merged under a better title though. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 13:48, 14 August 2006 (EST)
:I'm not sure about these articles. They don't strike me as conforming to either the style or the content standards we should have in place here. I respectfully suggest that "Bloodstone Keep Origins" should more appropriately be an off-site webpage with links from the [[Bloodstone Keep]] article. [[User:Paul Matisz|Paul Matisz]] 09:57. 21 August 2006 (EST).
::As far as style goes, I agree with you. It is my own personal bias, but I think that Cunnan should aim for neutral point of view, non-personal accounts. I personally think that this level of content is great. I would love to see this much detail on every SCA group. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 23:29, 19 October 2006 (EST)

===Page of the Month===
You know, I think we could do with a new pages of the month.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 14:30, 7 October 2006 (EST)
:I agree, but what one?--[[User:ThorgrimrGunnarrsson|Thorgrimr of Dragonsspine]] 23:41, 7 October 2006 (EST)

:You can always add new proposed pages to [[Cunnan:Page of the Month]] (see bottom section). As to editting the actual [[Main Page]], it just needs us mods to get to action since we are the only ones who can change it. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]]

Sorry I haven't been updating it. I promise that if nobody else does anything I'll get to it for November. In the meantime, like Cian says, please put any good pages you see (or write) on the [[Cunnan:Page of the Month]] page. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 23:23, 19 October 2006 (EST)

===How Do I ... ?===
"create" a Category ?
We have a number of "wanted" ones, which could probably do with some attention, especially as the "wanted" ones show up on the list of "categories" without a hint that they are, in fact, inchoate ?? -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 19:10, 16 October 2006 (EST)
: I don't quite follow you, but I'll try and answer your query. If you edit the category to give it a possible description, then it will be able to show you what articles have been placed in that category. If that description is no longer accurate once you see the category's members, then either change the description or change what is in the category.
:If you want to start a brand new category, just put [[[[:category:NEWCATEGORYNAME]]]] somewhere on a page that is a suitable member for the new category. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:35, 17 October 2006 (EST)
:: Fine, so it's just a matter of ''describing'' the category. Good, can do that. Thanks, Cian. -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]]

===Proposed genocide===
Arising out of the above (and an attempt to do some categorising of my own work (thanks, [[User: Cian]] and others for your help in times past -- as you know them better than I, please continue) I have noticed that we have a goodly number of categories with only 1 article in them, and I was proposing to carry out a cull, especially targeting those where the category and the article are, effectivly, the same thing. Given that what I do, a more experienced admin can reverse, does anyone want to stop me before I start, or shall I hack away (discreetly) and allow restoration as wiser heads see fit ? -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 22:05, 20 October 2006 (EST)
: Not everything needs to be in a category. Personally, I think that there are too many, and some pages should not be in a super- and a sub-category , e.g. [[:category:people (medieval)]] and [[:category:monarchs (medieval)]]. So you have my secular blessing if it makes you comfortable. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 17:10, 23 October 2006 (EST)
::I disagree on the category/sub-category thing. If I am looking for weapons for example, I would like to have the opportunity to narrow it to pole weapons, or archery for example, should I wish. Sub-categories provide opportunities for finding articles more readily and also to include more inclusive article groupings.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 09:47, 27 October 2006 (EST)
:::I meant that [[William the Conqueror]] should be in [[:category:monarchs (medieval)]] but not also in [[:category:people (medieval)]], which the monarchs category is also a sub-category of. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:55, 27 October 2006 (EST)
::::If someone is browsing for people in the 11th century, but fails to find the monarchs category they will miss an important part of the people of the medieval era if they are grouped separately. Classification begins a the top and branches down in an inclusive, nor exclusive manner.eg genus/species, IMHO.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 09:59, 27 October 2006 (EST)
:::::Well, I've started the process anyway, and will csrry it through as best I can. -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]]
::New one... [[:category:cooking|category:cooking]] and [[:category:food|category:food]], which one should be a subcategory of the other? Does it matter? Should they both be each other's subcategory? What about [[:category:recipes|category:recipes]]? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:35, 22 November 2006 (EST)
:::I believe that cooking should be a subcategory of food (as not all food needs to be cooked but cooking always involves food), and recipes should be a subcategory of cooking.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 16:44, 22 November 2006 (EST)
ON an allied topic, I note that the category "people - modern" includes both mudane and SCA identities. Is it worth opening a category: "people -- personae" to distinguish ? Or is that too much faff ? -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 00:49, 30 November 2006 (EST)

=== Definition of category:people (medieval) ===
Umm, so now we are deciding that the [[medieval]] world ends at 1500? I'm afraid that that date is as vague as saying when the [[Renaissance]] starts. I think that we need 3 or 4 main categories: people (ancient)= -600AD; people (medieval) or people (period) = 600-1600AD ; people (modern) or people (post-period) = 1600AD -. I have no problem with the term medieval being used for the entire [[SCA]] [[period]] for the purpose of this category. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:54, 26 February 2007 (EST)
* There are many and varied viewpoints on when the end of the Middle Ages occurs. However, IIRC not one goes past 1517 as the end of the High Middle Ages (many have it ending during the middle of the 15th century). If Cunnan is meant to be a reference, then it should follow the standard definitions. Are we intending to change the definitions of other terms in order to provide further confusion to readers--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 17:15, 26 February 2007 (EST)
* Well, what I was trying to indicate was that I really don't care if people were from the middle ages or the renaissance. I just want to know if they were pre-period, in period, post-period or SCA/recreationist and I would like the categories to match that. While yes, Cunnan is trying to not just be an SCA reference, it does at least have a formally defined finishing date for its concept of "period". The conventional "epoch/era" terms don't. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:07, 27 February 2007 (EST)
**Well there are over a hundred pages categorised as people (medieval) that would need to be changed to people (period). I think it would be easier if we gave a definitive time frame for these times periods instead. It would certainly be much more expedient. How about 500-1500 Medieval, 1500-1750 Early Modern, 1750-1800 Industrial Revolution, 1800-Present Modern?--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 16:20, 27 February 2007 (EST)

===What do to with [[:Category:people (SCA)]]?===
I recently redirected [[:category:people - modern]] to [[:category:people (modern)]]. In the middle of donig this, I realized that most of the articles listed under this category are actually personal bios of people within the SCA. I then made [[:category:people (SCA)]]. In the middle of doing ''that'' I realized that [[:category:people (SCA)]] may be against what Cunnan is for:
::First and foremost, Cunnan should only be used for information that in some way relates to re-enactment of the period roughly between 600AD and 1600AD. Other information does not belong on Cunnan (e.g. Blogging, Advertising and debates).

So if this is the case, should all articles in [[:category:people (SCA)]] be removed? Or should it be simply culled to include notable SCA folks? --[[User:Sarah Van Der Goes|Sarah Van Der Goes]] 03:31, 29 June 2007 (EST)

* I believe some of those SCA people pages are there because they either 
# talk about people of note in the history of the SCA 
# talk about people of note according to the editors of Cunnan 
# talk about people of note according to [[Stormhold]], [[Krae Glas]] and the [[College of St. Monica]], the historical editors/creators of Cunnan. 
Sometimes, one person may meet all three of those criteria. The main point here is that whether we like it or not, Cunnan is very heavily tilted towards providing background info on how the SCA is run and that includes basic information on and history of the branches. That in turn mentions the names of "famous" people, like [[Cariadoc of the Bow]]. While the issue of who is "famous" is subjective, we obviously don't want to have a page for every SCA monarch there ever was, but some may have done amazing or notorious things that are worth writing about. 
- [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:06, 29 June 2007 (EST)

:I'm inclined to back Cian on this one. Having written some of the articles on notable [[Ealdormere|Ealdormereans]], I think a good criteria for having a Cunnan article should be a notable and ''lasting'' impact on the Society, at the Kingdom level at least. Having an award named after you, or an event, or starting something important (i.e. [[Cariadoc of the Bow]] starting the first [[Pennsic]]) or have who have contributed a huge volume of work to the Society (i.e. [[Cariadoc of the Bow]], for everything he's done ''since'' starting Pennsic). Just being in a Household, or because you're a friend of a Cunnan contributor, or something like that probably shouldn't qualify you for a Cunnan article. But if it's someone like Duke Sir [[Finnvarr de Taahe|Finnvarr]], a [[triple peer]] with four decades of notable contributions to several Kingdoms, then yes, they probably deserve a couple of paragraphs. [[User:Paul Matisz|Paul Matisz]] 28-06-07, 23:15EDT.
::This is fine with me. I'm very new to the SCA so I don't know many of the "famous" members that you all know. What I'm saying is I'm the worst person to try and cull down the amount of [[:category:people (SCA)]] entries to include notables only. Would either of you, or anyone else like to take a shot? Or shall we leave it to grow until it gets out of control? --[[User:Sarah Van Der Goes|Sarah Van Der Goes]] 01:07, 30 June 2007 (EST)
:::Yeah, I just took a quick look at some of the entries in the category, and I'd definitely say there needs to be a purge. Unfortunately, I'm leaving for the [[Trillium War]] in about twenty minutes, so I won't be able to do much about it until about next week. Most of these articles are [[ego piece]]s, and have no actual value in the database. Just for an example [[Thorbjorn Osis Brandsson]] is a ''good'' article, while [[Pustulio]] strikes me as being somewhat outside the tone we're trying to strike here. [[User: Paul Matisz]] 13:38 EDT, 29-06-07.
:::: I finally got around to killing all the "ego piece" articles. There are now surprisingly few articles on notable SCAdians in the category. I do apologize to the good gentles of [[Arrowsreach]] and the [[College of St. Monica]], but most of the articles I deleted were about minor SCAdians from those areas. While I'm sure they're lovely people who contribute greatly to the SCA, I don't think that Cunnan is the place for the posting of in-jokes and friendly ribbing. Certain other articles were amended with a not requesting clarification of the SCAdian's contribution. As I have said before, bios in the People (SCA) category ought to be those who have made a major and long-term contribution to their Kingdoms and the Society as a whole, for example, a gentle who founded a major Barony ([[Fionnadh Averylle O'Connor of Maidenhead]], who contributed greatly to the early years of the [[Barony of Rising Waters]] and by extension [[Ealdormere]]), or who started a major event ([[Cariadoc of the Bow]], who gets the blame for [[Pennsic]]), or who have done something very noteworthy ([[Kolfinna Kottr]], first female [[Knight]] in [[Caid]]). That being said, certain SCAdians who are not currently represented in this category ought to be, such as Queen Aislinn of the Midrealm. [[User: Paul Matisz]] , 13:14 EDT 31-08-07.

===Spammers (again)===

Personally I think it is high time we blocked all non-registered users from editing. While it will not stop all vandals it will stop the current illegible vandal spambot, which is no doubt running with very little effort from its sociopathic owner, but at great inconvenience to us. Most serious entries have either ceased, or are lost in the smog of illegible edits and reverts. While I empathise with Tobin's ideals about open access, it is far easier to destroy than it is to create and nurture, and one idiot has effectively tied up the main group of contributors. - Conrad?

: I have to agree here. It has become a little tiresome.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 01:47, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:I agree too. Set it to registered only for three months then see if the bots have stopped trying. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:38, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:May I register my agreement. Someone somewhere seems to have launched this attack, and I can only think that, if it is serious, then blocking the mousehole will comple the rogue elephant to beat down a wall, whereupon we will be able to see and perhaps identify him/her/it. -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 19:45, 19 November 2007 (EST)

=== Query ===
Excuse me, I think I'm in someone else's discussion, but don't know how to do ANYTHING. I want to know how to ASK A QUESTION. I got to "Cunnan" [I want to know what it means, too.] because I wanted to find out why the names of SCA people are often preceded by "THL" but I can't find an explanation for what it stands for. I also wanted to find out about "the Enchanted Ground". And actually, I want to know if there is a correct procedure for posing a question when the search button brings no results. I'm sure interrupting somebody's discussion is not the way. If anyone reads this, I'd be very grateful to find an answer here next time I look. Thank you all. (I'm hunting for an SCA contact near me, but haven't found one yet [Barcelona]. Thank you again.
: This is as good a place to ask queries like that as any other place. I will try to direct you to the appropriate pages:
* [[THL]] is an abbreviation for "The Honourable [[Lord]]" or "The Honourable [[Lady]]". It means that the individual has received a [[grant of arms]] from the [[King]] and [[Queen]]. Other abbreviations are also used for other [[award]]s, and some describe it as [[alphabet soup]].
* [[Enchanted Ground]] is an area at an [[SCA]] [[event]], (normally a [[camping event]]) that is formally or informally reserved for [[period]] encampments. This means that the [[tent]]s, [[cooking]] facilities and general appearance of the [[Enchanted Ground]] is more [[medieval]] than a standard campsite. This term may be rather specific to the SCA in [[Australia]] and it actually started as the name of the campsite of a certain [[household]] ([[House Unnamed]]) at the [[Rowany Festival]].
**I don't believe that is correct. Rather, [[Enchanted Ground]] was the brainchild of [[Duke]] [[Cariadoc of the Bow]] and first appeared, I think, at the [[Twentieth Year Celebration]]. He had proposed the idea, if the reference I found is correct, in TI #63, Summer of 1982. [[User:AlexandreDavigne|AlexandreDavigne]] 02:24, 14 November 2006 (EST)
* Spain is part of the [[SCA]] [[Kingdom of Drachenwald]]. I don't know if we have an existing [[branch]] in [[Barcelona]].
**Check the Drachenvald website - http://www.drachenwald.sca.org/Regnum/ - it appears that all of Spain is a single Shire, Alcazar de Brioga [[User:AlexandreDavigne|AlexandreDavigne]] 02:45, 14 November 2006 (EST)
* For the meaning, click on [[Cunnan]].
: Hope that all helps - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:54, 13 November 2006 (EST)
Thank you all - I'm the original uneducated enquirer. I think you have all answered everything. Except I haven't found anybody in Barcelona, yet. (I speak Catalan, but not Castilian, and I'm not very interested in the Spanish-speaking middle ages... I'd rather use my French or even struggle with Latin. So I'm hunting for some Catalan anachronists.) Thanks. Sorry to be anonymous, but I'm not anybody, yet.

=== Proper adjectives and proper nouns===
Okay, this is a linguist talking. The word "[[French]]" has a multitude of meanings and ways in which it is in the [[English]] [[language]]. As a noun it refers to a [[language]] and a group of people (a nationality). As an adjective, it refers to things associated with the group of people or the country [[France]] or the language, e.g. a French castle, the French language, his French wife, a French verb. That is how things work in the English language for the word "French".

Up til now, [[Cunnan]] has restricted the page [[French]] to only be for the [[language]]. I have made sure that any links for the people etc have always been [France|French]. Likewise was done for [England|English], [Germany|German] etc. The article with the proper adjective is only for the language.

[[User:AlexandreDavigne| AlexandreDavigne]] has started adding a disambiguation section to [[English]] and [[French]]. This does not sit well with me. I feel that it doesn't need a disambiguation section. It doesn't need a disambiguation anything. If you want to know about the Germans, you go to [[Germany]]. If you want to know about the French, you got to [[France]]. If you want to know about specific French, you go to [[Frank]] or [[Gaul]] etc.

I thought it would be best to ask the rest of you before I undid Alexandre's otherwise fine work. If you have disambiguations for one proper noun/adjective, we will (for consistancies sake) have to add them to all. Do we really need such disambiguations?
- [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:12, 8 November 2006 (EST)

Given the way that English works in common usage, I'd suggest that if disambiguation is deemed unneccessary (or simply redundant), then at the very least a link to the appropriate section be included with an appropriate explanation. I can see a case to be made for either approach, but I think just leaving it unaddressed is begging for folks like me to step in and cause this kind of conversation to happen:-) [[User:AlexandreDavigne|AlexandreDavigne]] 12:00, 8 November 2006 (EST)

:I personally dislike pages with multiple definitions. I would prefer to see an italicised headnote along the lines of ''This article refers to the French language. For other uses of the word ''French'' see [[France]] and [[kiss]]ing.'' This of course is a matter of personal preference and I am happy to go for what most people feel is better. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 22:55, 13 November 2006 (EST)

::That would work for me - -I just think that leaving it unaddressed is not a particularly good idea; if I (or many folk, I suspect) enter "the French" in the search box, I would expect to find an article about the French people. As I say, your solution works for me (although I don't particularly dislike mutliple definition pages. I don't really care one way or the other). [[User:AlexandreDavigne|AlexandreDavigne]] 00:14, 14 November 2006 (EST)
=== Spammers ===
For at least the second time we have been spammed by someone using a graphic claiming to be from WwW.The-SaboTage.Org and a graphic called rozetgd2.jpg. Is there any way we can filter out any edits that include these terms or file? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:04, 28 February 2007 (EST)
:Yes, it can be added to the spam filter. I'm about to dash off to work but I've put it on my to-do list. Should happen late tonight, early tomorrow. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 14:20, 1 March 2007 (EST)
:Can we add user IP 209.158.163.14? I am back tracking the damage they did. : [[User:Candrade|Carlos Nieto de Andrade]] 12:58, 28 March 2007 (EST)
=== The Ampersand Bandits ===
For a number of weeks Cunnan has been hit by vandals from a variety of URLs that seem to be deleting any content following ampersands, as well as modifying non-English alphabet characters (which often need to updated anyway). Is there any way we can stop this happening? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:32, 14 June 2007 (EST)

Ha! take a look at the log for tonight (June 16th)! [[Barony of Rowany]] vandalized at 21:27, corrected at 21:27, and Vandal 221.16.136.97 banned at 21:28. Rather like potting grouse on the wing, what? [[User:Paul Matisz]] 2007-06-16 21:39EDT

:So who are these guys, anyway? Correcting these attacks, I sometimes feel like King Canute, trying to hold back the tide with a word. [[User:Paul Matisz]] 2007-06-22 20:37EDT

On 1 Sept we suffered a major attach by Ampersand Vandals from a number of different IP addresses, some of which altered several articles apiece. I dished out a round of 3-month bans and rollbacks, but be aware that our problems of earlier this year may be returning. [[User: Paul Matisz]] 200-09-01 23:30EDT

=== The Illegible Vandals ===
First it was the Ampersand Bandits. Now we have new class of vandals with a different MO - the Illegible Vandals! We have been getting unknown people adding just one word consisting of 8-10 characters to a range of pages. I believe the choice of characters is random because I don't recognise anything that I would find in any of my dictionaries. So the vandalism is pretty pointless. As far as I can work out, the same "user" has never struck more than once. Wierd. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 13:39, 27 September 2007 (EST)
:Alas, we're now seeing several articles vandalized by a single IP. It's the sheer volume of IPs involved that concerns me -- we've been hit pretty hard over the last week. Kudos on everyone helping to stem the tide! [[User:Paul Matisz|Paul Matisz]] 19:05EDT 02 Oct 07

:Yeah, I have since noticed repeat offenders. The thing that gets me is the fact that there seems to be no reason for these attacks. If they were all concentrated at particular times, then I could believe that it is was just an attempt at "denial of service" but there aren't enough of them at any one time for that. Other than restricting editing to logged in members, I can't see how any system can automatically prevent the Illegible Vandals. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:19, 3 October 2007 (EST)

:On 04 Oct between 10:39 and 17:08 some twenty articles were vandalized by these jerks. In some cases, the same article was vandalized numerous times. Given the randomness I suspect this may be some kind of bot or virus... is there any way to defend against them? [[User:Paul Matisz|Paul Matisz]] 17:15EDT 04 Oct 07

: Attacks today from three different IP addresses from 87.101.244.* . I think we might be able to put a filter on that for a few months. Tobin? Unfortunately, there seems no clear pattern to any of the other addresses. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 13:09, 9 October 2007 (EST)

===A Note on Vandals and Newcomers===
I despise vandals. Vandalism to Cunnan articles will be quickly corrected and the vandal's IP outright banned for a an appropriate length of time. Be aware that my definition of "an appropriate length of time" is ''inversely'' proportional to the amount of caffeine in my bloodstream.

I encourage anyone interested in making legitimate changes to Cunnan articles to make a user profile -- it's always nice to have new people in our community, and it makes it a lot easier to weed out the vandalism. [[user:Paul Matisz|Paul Matisz]] 09:51EDT 28 Sept 07

=== Registration is now required for edits ===
Hello all,
I've been away from Cunnan for a long time as I've been busy with uni. I've read everyone's comments regarding the vandals and have looked at the mess they've been making recently.

Anonymous edits are no longer allowed. Hopefully they can be enabled again later after I've looked at other possible solutions.

There will also be a software upgrade in the next few weeks.

[[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 12:17, 25 November 2007 (EST)

:Thanks for that Tobin. It's a shame that this has been needed, but all that rolling back was getting quite tiresome, and I wasn't one of those who was doing most of the work. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 23:25, 25 November 2007 (EST)

: I concur: thank you for taking the (hard) decision -- it hurt me to the heart to see our good work mangled in this way. -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 19:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)

Talk:Edward Atheling

2007-12-02T23:53:53Z

Tobin: Talk:Edward Atheling moved to Talk:Edward the Exile: See talk page.

#REDIRECT [[Talk:Edward the Exile]]

Talk:Edward the Exile

2007-12-02T23:53:53Z

Tobin: Talk:Edward Atheling moved to Talk:Edward the Exile: See talk page.

AAAAAAAAArgh!
He was NOT Edward Atheling- he was known as Edward the Exile. Atheling does not mean "Exile" it means "nobly born" or "royally born". His son was Edgar the Atheling. I suggest deleting this stub and redoing it altogether. [[User:Streona|Streona]] 09:46, 1 December 2007 (EST)

Edward Atheling

2007-12-02T23:53:53Z

Tobin: Edward Atheling moved to Edward the Exile: See talk page.

#REDIRECT [[Edward the Exile]]

Edward the Exile

2007-12-02T23:53:53Z

Tobin: Edward Atheling moved to Edward the Exile: See talk page.

'''Edward''', surnamed the '''''Atheling''''' (meaning ''Exile'') to distinguish him from other contemporaries, was the son of [[Edmund Ironside]] and his wife Ealdgyth. He was born around 1016 CE, in [[England]].

After the invasion and accession of [[Canute the Great]], England was no longer safe for his family, and they were sent overseas for their safety, initially to [[Sweden]], but eventually ending up in [[Germany]].

In exile he married Agatha, a German [[princess]] who may have been the daughter of Ludolf, [[Count]] of Brunswick. They had two children, [[Edgar Atheling|Edgar]] 'Atheling' (who managed to survive the [[Norman Conquest]], made peace with [[William the Conqueror|William]] and seems to have survived until the time of [[Henry I]]), and Margaret, who married [[Malcolm III]] of [[Scotland]], three of whose children became [[Scottish kings]] and a fourth the wife of a [[king]] of [[England]]. Margaret was also canonised as a [[saint]], because of her extreme piety and ceaseless efforts to reinforce [[Christianity]] in [[Scotland]].

Edward was recalled to England by [[Edward the Confessor]] (his uncle) and arrived in 1057, but died, in battle, before he could reach the king and be [[becoming king|re-established in the line of succession]]. His death left the English [[throne]] somewhat uncertain, in the light of the Confessor's childlessness, and contributed to the seizure of the throne by [[Harold Godwinson]], and the [[Norman Conquest]] to establish the right of [[William the Conqueror|William]], [[Duke]] of [[Normandy]] to succeed, as Edward had promised him he would.

[[category:people (medieval)]]

Glass

2007-11-25T01:17:56Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 220.231.39.55 (Talk); changed back to last version by User 144

== History of glass ==

Naturally occurring glass, such as obsidian, has been used since the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/stone_age stone age]. The first documented glass making is in [[Egypt]] around 2000 BC. Glass was first used as a glaze for pottery and other items. In the first century BC the technique of blowing glass was developed and what had once been an extremely rare and valuable item became much more common. During the [[Roman Empire]] many forms of glass were created, mostly used in vases and bottles.

Until the [[12th century]] [[stained glass]] (which is glass with some metals added for color) was not widely used.

The centre for glass making from the [[14th century]] was [[Venice]], which developed many new techniques and became the center of a lucrative export trade in dinnerware, [[mirror]]s, and other luxury items. Eventually, some of the Venetian glass workers moved to other areas of northern Europe, and glass making spread with them.

== External Links ==
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass
[[category:materials (medieval)]]

Coleslaw

2007-11-25T01:17:48Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 195.229.242.57 (Talk); changed back to last version by Tobin

#REDIRECT [[Coleslaw_(recipe)]]

Cunnan:Village pump

2007-11-25T01:17:07Z

Tobin: /* Registration is now required for edit */

In [[Medieval]] [[village]]s people would gather at the '''Village Pump''' to discuss those items that were important to their lives. On [[Cunnan]] the Village Pump serves a similar purpose: Giving users a place to meet and discuss current events, policy and content.
----

== Announcements ==
* Some of the old Village pump articles have been moved to save space:
** [[Cunnan:Old Village pump discussions (moved 2003)|Moved during 2003]]
** [[Cunnan:Old Village pump discussions (moved 2004)|Moved during 2004]]
** [[Cunnan:Old Village pump discussions (moved 2005)|Moved during 2005]]
** [[Cunnan:Old Village pump discussions (moved 2006)|Moved during 2006]]

== Topics ==

=== Content on Wikipedia ===

Those who remember when Cunnan appeared on a list of sites who used Wikipedia data incorrectly will be amused to note that several Cunnan pages have been transported to Wikipedia. Branle, trobar ric and pastourelle among others have all been taken across. In fact their page on the Branle was not correctly attributed. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 11:28, 26 April 2007 (EST)

=== Instrumental Music ===
I'm sure most SCA performers memorize their music in the best traditional fashion, but for anyone who doesn't have frequent contact with other ''jongleurs'' I have suggested on the [http://cunnan.sca.org.au/wiki/Talk:Instrumental_music Instrumental music] page that it might be helpful to post music in abc notation because
* it is human-readable with a little practice
* there is an extensive software base to produce hardcopy, edit, and play MIDI renderings
* there is already a huge resource of music in abc notation readily available
--[[User:64.9.120.91|64.9.120.91]] 00:32, 1 April 2007 (EST) aka [http://360.yahoo.com/kittybriton Kittybriton]

=== Spam flood ===
As anyone who looked at [[Special:Recentchanges]] today probably noticed Cunnan was the target of a group of spam bots who touched a large number of pages. The domain the bots were spamming has now been added to the antispam filter.

I've been through all the touched pages and have edited and saved the most recent useable version of each. Unfortunately, the spam bots unwittingly hit a bug in the software which means that the the page revisions before each of their edits have most probably been corrupted. If anyone feels like spending an hour helping to cleanup then they should go through my edits for the day and check that the page revision I restored each article to was optimal (i.e. the second most recent revision in most cases).

Cunnan's software has been upgraded so that the database corruption wont occur again even if the spam bots return.
[[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 23:35, 8 Oct 2005 (CDT)

* Hmm, it just happened again. I believe I have got rid of the spam, but it was done using multiple "machines" so it wasn't worth my time blocking everyone. Also some pages were hit multiple times. Rollback only works for the last action on the page, including rollbacks, so some of the fixes had to be edits. Nasty! I understand Tobin's problems the first time. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:53, 22 Oct 2005 (CDT)
** Three cheers for Cian! Thanks for doing the dirty work Cian, the fact that you and Tobin have done this is much appreciated. Given that this is the second time this has happened maybe it's time that we adopted a policy of only allowing editing for people who have logged in. It's not a foolproof defence I know, and it makes us feel less welcoming, but it would save a lot of aggravation. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 20:55, 22 Oct 2005 (CDT)
*** The most nasty wiki spam bots use a mixture of accounts and anonymous edits (the attack today and the first major attack are both examples of this). Forcing people to register only inconveniences humans. I've updated the anti spam filter to include the <nowiki><div></nowiki> id that the recent spam attacks have all included. Hopefully this will catch future attacks from this bot. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 04:57, 5 Nov 2005 (CST)
*** The two attacks I have "cleaned up" today all targetted the same files but the second one created blank pages. I wonder if they were doing so for a purpose? I blocked the repeating URLs which sometimes actually used a username. [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 19:40, 11 Dec 2005 (CST)
**** I've added some things from today's spam flood to the anti spam filter. If things stop working someone should tell me. -- [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 05:51, 12 Dec 2005 (CST)

*FYI the [[France]] page is currently showing up as uneditable due to the spam filter --[[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 02:41, 8 Dec 2005 (CST)
** I know, I'll remove ''that site'' from the anti spam filter when I've got time to do a general cleanup -- [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 05:51, 12 Dec 2005 (CST)

*I'm getting sick of not being able to properly use the word special-ist (without the hyphen) because it includes cial-is (without the hyphen). I seem to use the word (and it's relatives) quite a bit. Is there any way we can still exclude the pharaceutical (because that trick is working nicely thankyou), but allow certain words that contain it? special-ist special-ism, special-ists, special-istic etc. [[User:Tiff|Tiff]]
** Oops, my bad. I'll change the anti spam filter to require a non-letter character on either side for a match. Should happen after I'm back from work today. Have people noticed any other false positives? -- [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 13:15, 12 Jan 2006 (CST)
*** Should be fixed now. The new rule for c*alis is '''<nowiki>[^A-Za-z]c*alis[^A-Za-z]</nowiki>''' (with the * replaced by the appropriate letter of course). -- [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 01:43, 13 Jan 2006 (CST)

* I was unable to add a link to the Bordescros website hosted by www . freewebs . com / bordescros because of the spam filter. Can this be made an exception please.--[[User:MasterWill|MasterWill]] 06:49, 16 Mar 2006 (CST)
** I've removed freewebs from the spam filter. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 00:15, 24 Mar 2006 (CST)

* Not quite a flood this time, but the same pages have been attacked by the same sort of spam from various different "users". Is there anyway we can combat that sort of spam (other than the manual power of moderator's fingers) ? I have been banning the users for 2 weeks, but it really is pointless if they just come back with a new "name" the next day. Is it possible to prevent people/bots using usernames that are in the format of URLs (eg. 218.53.104.2)? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 08:49, 23 Jun 2006 (EST)

* I've just enabled two things that should help reduce the amount of spam we're getting. The first is proxy blocking using [http://www.au.sorbs.net/ SORBS]. This may catch a few legitimate users but that's unlikely (and if it does, well, they shouldn't be accessing the internet via an open proxy anyway). The second is [[wikipedia:Captcha|Captcha]]s for any edit which adds a URL to a page or changes an existing URL. For the time being the captchas are simple maths problems, e.g. "38 - 6 =" or "12 + 0 =". I'm going to e-mail [[User:Del|Del]] about the possibility of having the software required for image captchas installed on chiara (Cunnan's server). There may still be a few spammers which get through but this will stop the stupider bots and most non-humans. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 19:39, 22 July 2006 (EST)
** Just a minor thing about Captcha; when you come to the maths problem, and there's a link that should point to some information about why it's there/what it is, the link is broken. I think this is because it's supposed to be linking to the wikipedia article, but instead it's linking to cunnan?
- [[User:Asfridhr|Asfridhr, who has been too lazy to log in.]]

===Protected Pages===

*I have just protected a couple of pages that have been repeatedly hiit by a spambot. These pages are [[woman]] and [[convent]]. I will try to remember to remove the protection once that particular spambot has given up. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 22:22, 25 Jun 2006 (EST)

===Branle Dance Broken===

I've found that the page for the Branle dance is broken, both from searching for it and from the link for the dance page.

:[[branle]] looks fine to me. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 22:17, 25 Jun 2006 (EST)

I have tried it again and it's still not working. Specifically, I'm getting this error:

A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last
attempted database query was:

(SQL query hidden)

from within function "MediaWikiBagOStuff:_doquery". MySQL returned error "1062: Duplicate entry
'cunnan:messages:Currentevents' for key 1 (localhost)".

I am using Mozilla Firefox, the latest version (if that might make a difference).

*I can't interpret the technical stuff (I'll leave that to others, who i hope will log in soon), but it's working fine for me too, on a recent version of firefox. Maybe this is a timing issue - [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] and I are in the same timezone, and may be logging in a quieter time of day than you useage-wise. Have you checked 10 minutes, or even an hour later? We've had occasional errors related to server overuse.[[User:Tiff|Tiff]] 19:15, 27 Jun 2006 (EST)

=== Software Upgrade ===
Cunnan has been upgrade to version 1.6.8 of the Mediawiki software. If anything appears broken or acts weirdly mention it here so that someone can look at it. It's worth noting that there have been major changes to the database including conversion to UTF-8 encoding. This should have worked but some special characters may be messed up. You can help Cunnan by fixing them as you find them. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 19:12, 12 July 2006 (EST)

:All the unusual characters are out. I know that you've changed a couple of the AE ligatures on AEthelmearc, but there are lots of other characters such as the Forme of Cury recipes, and the Exeter Book riddles. I seem to recall last time this happened you were able to do a fix without editing every single item. Any chance of doing that again? [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 22:46, 12 July 2006 (EST)
::No, sadly, the newer version of the software requires the database to be in UTF-8. I'm at a loss as to why the conversion didn't work. I'm going to have another look at it in the morning but I'm not sure if it can be easily fixed. If it can't be then will just have to bite the bullet and fix problem pages manually. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 23:21, 12 July 2006 (EST)
:::Congrats on the upgrade! I hope you'll now be able to implement some of the extensions that help to address the wikispam issues. At mine, we ended up simply having to force a confirmed email address before editing, which unfortunately meant no anon edit at all, but since they only account for 1% of our contributions (besides spam) we went ahead with the plan. As far as you UTF-8 issue, I think it either has to do with PHP or with going from an early 1.4 version all the way to 1.6 in a single jump. I'm also working on the rest of the kingdom devices and their populace badges where I can. --[[User:ThorgrimrGunnarrsson|Thorgrimr of Dragonsspine]] 11:11, 13 July 2006 (EST)
: Why don't we just change them all to the accented letters etc to the &; forms, e.g. Æ and è They are charset independent. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 16:34, 13 July 2006 (EST)

=== Navigation links ===
The links in the sidebar to [[Current events]] and [[Cunnan:Site support]] aren't used for much at present. Does anyone have a suggestion for something they might be replaced with? I might send Del an e-mail asking if collecting donations to go towards the cost of hosting is possible. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 13:49, 13 July 2006 (EST)

=== weird characters ===
Hiya after a long time. I noticed on two pages, I was getting something weird - black diamonds with question marks in them. I believe in both cases they took the place of special charchters, like an e with an accent mark on top of it. I am using Firefox. [[User:Sabine|Sabine]] 06:19, 28 July 2006 (EST)
:Known problem. The database should have been converted to UTF-8 during the most recent upgrade but something went wrong. I haven't had time to try and fix it yet. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 11:41, 28 July 2006 (EST)

=== Content police :^) ===
I believe that one of the [[Cunnan:What isn't Cunnan|policies]] for [[Cunnan]] is that it is not to be used by groups as an archive that their own webpages/newsgroups can't manage. Therefore I am watching the pages for [[Bloodstone Keep Origins Ch 1]] and [[Bloodstone Keep Origins Ch 2]]. If too many of these sort of pages occur, we might have to make a policy edict about them. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:46, 10 August 2006 (EST)
:As they currently read the Bloodstone pages are OK, in my opinion. As long as they are only documenting events that have happened I don't think it's an issue. Planning events or using Cunnan as a genreal archive would be out though. The articles should probably be merged under a better title though. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 13:48, 14 August 2006 (EST)
:I'm not sure about these articles. They don't strike me as conforming to either the style or the content standards we should have in place here. I respectfully suggest that "Bloodstone Keep Origins" should more appropriately be an off-site webpage with links from the [[Bloodstone Keep]] article. [[User:Paul Matisz|Paul Matisz]] 09:57. 21 August 2006 (EST).
::As far as style goes, I agree with you. It is my own personal bias, but I think that Cunnan should aim for neutral point of view, non-personal accounts. I personally think that this level of content is great. I would love to see this much detail on every SCA group. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 23:29, 19 October 2006 (EST)

===Page of the Month===
You know, I think we could do with a new pages of the month.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 14:30, 7 October 2006 (EST)
:I agree, but what one?--[[User:ThorgrimrGunnarrsson|Thorgrimr of Dragonsspine]] 23:41, 7 October 2006 (EST)

:You can always add new proposed pages to [[Cunnan:Page of the Month]] (see bottom section). As to editting the actual [[Main Page]], it just needs us mods to get to action since we are the only ones who can change it. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]]

Sorry I haven't been updating it. I promise that if nobody else does anything I'll get to it for November. In the meantime, like Cian says, please put any good pages you see (or write) on the [[Cunnan:Page of the Month]] page. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 23:23, 19 October 2006 (EST)

===How Do I ... ?===
"create" a Category ?
We have a number of "wanted" ones, which could probably do with some attention, especially as the "wanted" ones show up on the list of "categories" without a hint that they are, in fact, inchoate ?? -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 19:10, 16 October 2006 (EST)
: I don't quite follow you, but I'll try and answer your query. If you edit the category to give it a possible description, then it will be able to show you what articles have been placed in that category. If that description is no longer accurate once you see the category's members, then either change the description or change what is in the category.
:If you want to start a brand new category, just put [[[[:category:NEWCATEGORYNAME]]]] somewhere on a page that is a suitable member for the new category. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:35, 17 October 2006 (EST)
:: Fine, so it's just a matter of ''describing'' the category. Good, can do that. Thanks, Cian. -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]]

===Proposed genocide===
Arising out of the above (and an attempt to do some categorising of my own work (thanks, [[User: Cian]] and others for your help in times past -- as you know them better than I, please continue) I have noticed that we have a goodly number of categories with only 1 article in them, and I was proposing to carry out a cull, especially targeting those where the category and the article are, effectivly, the same thing. Given that what I do, a more experienced admin can reverse, does anyone want to stop me before I start, or shall I hack away (discreetly) and allow restoration as wiser heads see fit ? -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 22:05, 20 October 2006 (EST)
: Not everything needs to be in a category. Personally, I think that there are too many, and some pages should not be in a super- and a sub-category , e.g. [[:category:people (medieval)]] and [[:category:monarchs (medieval)]]. So you have my secular blessing if it makes you comfortable. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 17:10, 23 October 2006 (EST)
::I disagree on the category/sub-category thing. If I am looking for weapons for example, I would like to have the opportunity to narrow it to pole weapons, or archery for example, should I wish. Sub-categories provide opportunities for finding articles more readily and also to include more inclusive article groupings.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 09:47, 27 October 2006 (EST)
:::I meant that [[William the Conqueror]] should be in [[:category:monarchs (medieval)]] but not also in [[:category:people (medieval)]], which the monarchs category is also a sub-category of. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:55, 27 October 2006 (EST)
::::If someone is browsing for people in the 11th century, but fails to find the monarchs category they will miss an important part of the people of the medieval era if they are grouped separately. Classification begins a the top and branches down in an inclusive, nor exclusive manner.eg genus/species, IMHO.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 09:59, 27 October 2006 (EST)
:::::Well, I've started the process anyway, and will csrry it through as best I can. -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]]
::New one... [[:category:cooking|category:cooking]] and [[:category:food|category:food]], which one should be a subcategory of the other? Does it matter? Should they both be each other's subcategory? What about [[:category:recipes|category:recipes]]? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:35, 22 November 2006 (EST)
:::I believe that cooking should be a subcategory of food (as not all food needs to be cooked but cooking always involves food), and recipes should be a subcategory of cooking.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 16:44, 22 November 2006 (EST)
ON an allied topic, I note that the category "people - modern" includes both mudane and SCA identities. Is it worth opening a category: "people -- personae" to distinguish ? Or is that too much faff ? -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 00:49, 30 November 2006 (EST)

=== Definition of category:people (medieval) ===
Umm, so now we are deciding that the [[medieval]] world ends at 1500? I'm afraid that that date is as vague as saying when the [[Renaissance]] starts. I think that we need 3 or 4 main categories: people (ancient)= -600AD; people (medieval) or people (period) = 600-1600AD ; people (modern) or people (post-period) = 1600AD -. I have no problem with the term medieval being used for the entire [[SCA]] [[period]] for the purpose of this category. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:54, 26 February 2007 (EST)
* There are many and varied viewpoints on when the end of the Middle Ages occurs. However, IIRC not one goes past 1517 as the end of the High Middle Ages (many have it ending during the middle of the 15th century). If Cunnan is meant to be a reference, then it should follow the standard definitions. Are we intending to change the definitions of other terms in order to provide further confusion to readers--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 17:15, 26 February 2007 (EST)
* Well, what I was trying to indicate was that I really don't care if people were from the middle ages or the renaissance. I just want to know if they were pre-period, in period, post-period or SCA/recreationist and I would like the categories to match that. While yes, Cunnan is trying to not just be an SCA reference, it does at least have a formally defined finishing date for its concept of "period". The conventional "epoch/era" terms don't. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:07, 27 February 2007 (EST)
**Well there are over a hundred pages categorised as people (medieval) that would need to be changed to people (period). I think it would be easier if we gave a definitive time frame for these times periods instead. It would certainly be much more expedient. How about 500-1500 Medieval, 1500-1750 Early Modern, 1750-1800 Industrial Revolution, 1800-Present Modern?--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 16:20, 27 February 2007 (EST)

===What do to with [[:Category:people (SCA)]]?===
I recently redirected [[:category:people - modern]] to [[:category:people (modern)]]. In the middle of donig this, I realized that most of the articles listed under this category are actually personal bios of people within the SCA. I then made [[:category:people (SCA)]]. In the middle of doing ''that'' I realized that [[:category:people (SCA)]] may be against what Cunnan is for:
::First and foremost, Cunnan should only be used for information that in some way relates to re-enactment of the period roughly between 600AD and 1600AD. Other information does not belong on Cunnan (e.g. Blogging, Advertising and debates).

So if this is the case, should all articles in [[:category:people (SCA)]] be removed? Or should it be simply culled to include notable SCA folks? --[[User:Sarah Van Der Goes|Sarah Van Der Goes]] 03:31, 29 June 2007 (EST)

* I believe some of those SCA people pages are there because they either 
# talk about people of note in the history of the SCA 
# talk about people of note according to the editors of Cunnan 
# talk about people of note according to [[Stormhold]], [[Krae Glas]] and the [[College of St. Monica]], the historical editors/creators of Cunnan. 
Sometimes, one person may meet all three of those criteria. The main point here is that whether we like it or not, Cunnan is very heavily tilted towards providing background info on how the SCA is run and that includes basic information on and history of the branches. That in turn mentions the names of "famous" people, like [[Cariadoc of the Bow]]. While the issue of who is "famous" is subjective, we obviously don't want to have a page for every SCA monarch there ever was, but some may have done amazing or notorious things that are worth writing about. 
- [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:06, 29 June 2007 (EST)

:I'm inclined to back Cian on this one. Having written some of the articles on notable [[Ealdormere|Ealdormereans]], I think a good criteria for having a Cunnan article should be a notable and ''lasting'' impact on the Society, at the Kingdom level at least. Having an award named after you, or an event, or starting something important (i.e. [[Cariadoc of the Bow]] starting the first [[Pennsic]]) or have who have contributed a huge volume of work to the Society (i.e. [[Cariadoc of the Bow]], for everything he's done ''since'' starting Pennsic). Just being in a Household, or because you're a friend of a Cunnan contributor, or something like that probably shouldn't qualify you for a Cunnan article. But if it's someone like Duke Sir [[Finnvarr de Taahe|Finnvarr]], a [[triple peer]] with four decades of notable contributions to several Kingdoms, then yes, they probably deserve a couple of paragraphs. [[User:Paul Matisz|Paul Matisz]] 28-06-07, 23:15EDT.
::This is fine with me. I'm very new to the SCA so I don't know many of the "famous" members that you all know. What I'm saying is I'm the worst person to try and cull down the amount of [[:category:people (SCA)]] entries to include notables only. Would either of you, or anyone else like to take a shot? Or shall we leave it to grow until it gets out of control? --[[User:Sarah Van Der Goes|Sarah Van Der Goes]] 01:07, 30 June 2007 (EST)
:::Yeah, I just took a quick look at some of the entries in the category, and I'd definitely say there needs to be a purge. Unfortunately, I'm leaving for the [[Trillium War]] in about twenty minutes, so I won't be able to do much about it until about next week. Most of these articles are [[ego piece]]s, and have no actual value in the database. Just for an example [[Thorbjorn Osis Brandsson]] is a ''good'' article, while [[Pustulio]] strikes me as being somewhat outside the tone we're trying to strike here. [[User: Paul Matisz]] 13:38 EDT, 29-06-07.
:::: I finally got around to killing all the "ego piece" articles. There are now surprisingly few articles on notable SCAdians in the category. I do apologize to the good gentles of [[Arrowsreach]] and the [[College of St. Monica]], but most of the articles I deleted were about minor SCAdians from those areas. While I'm sure they're lovely people who contribute greatly to the SCA, I don't think that Cunnan is the place for the posting of in-jokes and friendly ribbing. Certain other articles were amended with a not requesting clarification of the SCAdian's contribution. As I have said before, bios in the People (SCA) category ought to be those who have made a major and long-term contribution to their Kingdoms and the Society as a whole, for example, a gentle who founded a major Barony ([[Fionnadh Averylle O'Connor of Maidenhead]], who contributed greatly to the early years of the [[Barony of Rising Waters]] and by extension [[Ealdormere]]), or who started a major event ([[Cariadoc of the Bow]], who gets the blame for [[Pennsic]]), or who have done something very noteworthy ([[Kolfinna Kottr]], first female [[Knight]] in [[Caid]]). That being said, certain SCAdians who are not currently represented in this category ought to be, such as Queen Aislinn of the Midrealm. [[User: Paul Matisz]] , 13:14 EDT 31-08-07.

===Spammers (again)===

Personally I think it is high time we blocked all non-registered users from editing. While it will not stop all vandals it will stop the current illegible vandal spambot, which is no doubt running with very little effort from its sociopathic owner, but at great inconvenience to us. Most serious entries have either ceased, or are lost in the smog of illegible edits and reverts. While I empathise with Tobin's ideals about open access, it is far easier to destroy than it is to create and nurture, and one idiot has effectively tied up the main group of contributors. - Conrad?

: I have to agree here. It has become a little tiresome.--[[User:User 144|User 144]] 01:47, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:I agree too. Set it to registered only for three months then see if the bots have stopped trying. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:38, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:May I register my agreement. Someone somewhere seems to have launched this attack, and I can only think that, if it is serious, then blocking the mousehole will comple the rogue elephant to beat down a wall, whereupon we will be able to see and perhaps identify him/her/it. -- [[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 19:45, 19 November 2007 (EST)

=== Query ===
Excuse me, I think I'm in someone else's discussion, but don't know how to do ANYTHING. I want to know how to ASK A QUESTION. I got to "Cunnan" [I want to know what it means, too.] because I wanted to find out why the names of SCA people are often preceded by "THL" but I can't find an explanation for what it stands for. I also wanted to find out about "the Enchanted Ground". And actually, I want to know if there is a correct procedure for posing a question when the search button brings no results. I'm sure interrupting somebody's discussion is not the way. If anyone reads this, I'd be very grateful to find an answer here next time I look. Thank you all. (I'm hunting for an SCA contact near me, but haven't found one yet [Barcelona]. Thank you again.
: This is as good a place to ask queries like that as any other place. I will try to direct you to the appropriate pages:
* [[THL]] is an abbreviation for "The Honourable [[Lord]]" or "The Honourable [[Lady]]". It means that the individual has received a [[grant of arms]] from the [[King]] and [[Queen]]. Other abbreviations are also used for other [[award]]s, and some describe it as [[alphabet soup]].
* [[Enchanted Ground]] is an area at an [[SCA]] [[event]], (normally a [[camping event]]) that is formally or informally reserved for [[period]] encampments. This means that the [[tent]]s, [[cooking]] facilities and general appearance of the [[Enchanted Ground]] is more [[medieval]] than a standard campsite. This term may be rather specific to the SCA in [[Australia]] and it actually started as the name of the campsite of a certain [[household]] ([[House Unnamed]]) at the [[Rowany Festival]].
**I don't believe that is correct. Rather, [[Enchanted Ground]] was the brainchild of [[Duke]] [[Cariadoc of the Bow]] and first appeared, I think, at the [[Twentieth Year Celebration]]. He had proposed the idea, if the reference I found is correct, in TI #63, Summer of 1982. [[User:AlexandreDavigne|AlexandreDavigne]] 02:24, 14 November 2006 (EST)
* Spain is part of the [[SCA]] [[Kingdom of Drachenwald]]. I don't know if we have an existing [[branch]] in [[Barcelona]].
**Check the Drachenvald website - http://www.drachenwald.sca.org/Regnum/ - it appears that all of Spain is a single Shire, Alcazar de Brioga [[User:AlexandreDavigne|AlexandreDavigne]] 02:45, 14 November 2006 (EST)
* For the meaning, click on [[Cunnan]].
: Hope that all helps - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:54, 13 November 2006 (EST)
Thank you all - I'm the original uneducated enquirer. I think you have all answered everything. Except I haven't found anybody in Barcelona, yet. (I speak Catalan, but not Castilian, and I'm not very interested in the Spanish-speaking middle ages... I'd rather use my French or even struggle with Latin. So I'm hunting for some Catalan anachronists.) Thanks. Sorry to be anonymous, but I'm not anybody, yet.

=== Proper adjectives and proper nouns===
Okay, this is a linguist talking. The word "[[French]]" has a multitude of meanings and ways in which it is in the [[English]] [[language]]. As a noun it refers to a [[language]] and a group of people (a nationality). As an adjective, it refers to things associated with the group of people or the country [[France]] or the language, e.g. a French castle, the French language, his French wife, a French verb. That is how things work in the English language for the word "French".

Up til now, [[Cunnan]] has restricted the page [[French]] to only be for the [[language]]. I have made sure that any links for the people etc have always been [France|French]. Likewise was done for [England|English], [Germany|German] etc. The article with the proper adjective is only for the language.

[[User:AlexandreDavigne| AlexandreDavigne]] has started adding a disambiguation section to [[English]] and [[French]]. This does not sit well with me. I feel that it doesn't need a disambiguation section. It doesn't need a disambiguation anything. If you want to know about the Germans, you go to [[Germany]]. If you want to know about the French, you got to [[France]]. If you want to know about specific French, you go to [[Frank]] or [[Gaul]] etc.

I thought it would be best to ask the rest of you before I undid Alexandre's otherwise fine work. If you have disambiguations for one proper noun/adjective, we will (for consistancies sake) have to add them to all. Do we really need such disambiguations?
- [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 11:12, 8 November 2006 (EST)

Given the way that English works in common usage, I'd suggest that if disambiguation is deemed unneccessary (or simply redundant), then at the very least a link to the appropriate section be included with an appropriate explanation. I can see a case to be made for either approach, but I think just leaving it unaddressed is begging for folks like me to step in and cause this kind of conversation to happen:-) [[User:AlexandreDavigne|AlexandreDavigne]] 12:00, 8 November 2006 (EST)

:I personally dislike pages with multiple definitions. I would prefer to see an italicised headnote along the lines of ''This article refers to the French language. For other uses of the word ''French'' see [[France]] and [[kiss]]ing.'' This of course is a matter of personal preference and I am happy to go for what most people feel is better. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 22:55, 13 November 2006 (EST)

::That would work for me - -I just think that leaving it unaddressed is not a particularly good idea; if I (or many folk, I suspect) enter "the French" in the search box, I would expect to find an article about the French people. As I say, your solution works for me (although I don't particularly dislike mutliple definition pages. I don't really care one way or the other). [[User:AlexandreDavigne|AlexandreDavigne]] 00:14, 14 November 2006 (EST)
=== Spammers ===
For at least the second time we have been spammed by someone using a graphic claiming to be from WwW.The-SaboTage.Org and a graphic called rozetgd2.jpg. Is there any way we can filter out any edits that include these terms or file? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:04, 28 February 2007 (EST)
:Yes, it can be added to the spam filter. I'm about to dash off to work but I've put it on my to-do list. Should happen late tonight, early tomorrow. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 14:20, 1 March 2007 (EST)
:Can we add user IP 209.158.163.14? I am back tracking the damage they did. : [[User:Candrade|Carlos Nieto de Andrade]] 12:58, 28 March 2007 (EST)
=== The Ampersand Bandits ===
For a number of weeks Cunnan has been hit by vandals from a variety of URLs that seem to be deleting any content following ampersands, as well as modifying non-English alphabet characters (which often need to updated anyway). Is there any way we can stop this happening? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 10:32, 14 June 2007 (EST)

Ha! take a look at the log for tonight (June 16th)! [[Barony of Rowany]] vandalized at 21:27, corrected at 21:27, and Vandal 221.16.136.97 banned at 21:28. Rather like potting grouse on the wing, what? [[User:Paul Matisz]] 2007-06-16 21:39EDT

:So who are these guys, anyway? Correcting these attacks, I sometimes feel like King Canute, trying to hold back the tide with a word. [[User:Paul Matisz]] 2007-06-22 20:37EDT

On 1 Sept we suffered a major attach by Ampersand Vandals from a number of different IP addresses, some of which altered several articles apiece. I dished out a round of 3-month bans and rollbacks, but be aware that our problems of earlier this year may be returning. [[User: Paul Matisz]] 200-09-01 23:30EDT

=== The Illegible Vandals ===
First it was the Ampersand Bandits. Now we have new class of vandals with a different MO - the Illegible Vandals! We have been getting unknown people adding just one word consisting of 8-10 characters to a range of pages. I believe the choice of characters is random because I don't recognise anything that I would find in any of my dictionaries. So the vandalism is pretty pointless. As far as I can work out, the same "user" has never struck more than once. Wierd. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 13:39, 27 September 2007 (EST)
:Alas, we're now seeing several articles vandalized by a single IP. It's the sheer volume of IPs involved that concerns me -- we've been hit pretty hard over the last week. Kudos on everyone helping to stem the tide! [[User:Paul Matisz|Paul Matisz]] 19:05EDT 02 Oct 07

:Yeah, I have since noticed repeat offenders. The thing that gets me is the fact that there seems to be no reason for these attacks. If they were all concentrated at particular times, then I could believe that it is was just an attempt at "denial of service" but there aren't enough of them at any one time for that. Other than restricting editing to logged in members, I can't see how any system can automatically prevent the Illegible Vandals. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 09:19, 3 October 2007 (EST)

:On 04 Oct between 10:39 and 17:08 some twenty articles were vandalized by these jerks. In some cases, the same article was vandalized numerous times. Given the randomness I suspect this may be some kind of bot or virus... is there any way to defend against them? [[User:Paul Matisz|Paul Matisz]] 17:15EDT 04 Oct 07

: Attacks today from three different IP addresses from 87.101.244.* . I think we might be able to put a filter on that for a few months. Tobin? Unfortunately, there seems no clear pattern to any of the other addresses. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 13:09, 9 October 2007 (EST)

===A Note on Vandals and Newcomers===
I despise vandals. Vandalism to Cunnan articles will be quickly corrected and the vandal's IP outright banned for a an appropriate length of time. Be aware that my definition of "an appropriate length of time" is ''inversely'' proportional to the amount of caffeine in my bloodstream.

I encourage anyone interested in making legitimate changes to Cunnan articles to make a user profile -- it's always nice to have new people in our community, and it makes it a lot easier to weed out the vandalism. [[user:Paul Matisz|Paul Matisz]] 09:51EDT 28 Sept 07

=== Registration is now required for edits ===
Hello all,
I've been away from Cunnan for a long time as I've been busy with uni. I've read everyone's comments regarding the vandals and have looked at the mess they've been making recently.

Anonymous edits are no longer allowed. Hopefully they can be enabled again later after I've looked at other possible solutions.

There will also be a software upgrade in the next few weeks.

[[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 12:17, 25 November 2007 (EST)

MediaWiki:Whitelistedittext

2007-11-25T01:10:36Z

Tobin: Explanation of why anonymous edits are not allowed.

You have to [[Special:Userlogin|login]] to edit pages.

This had been done to stop the hundreds of spam entries created by anonymous editors.

User talk:DunstanBramblette

2007-04-21T03:11:05Z

Tobin: Hello and Welcome to Cunnan!

Hello and Welcome to Cunnan!

We usually start by encouraging new users to make some more edits but you've already got the hang of things it seems. You might like to take a moment to fill in [[User:DunstanBramblette|your user page]] with whatever info about yourself you wish to share, we're always curious about new contributors.

Since some the pages you've added were fairly short and lacked their own intros I've moved them into sections on [[The Pippins]] and changed the format slightly. I've also moved the rehearsal log information onto [[Talk:The Pippins]] because it comes very close to event/group planning information which Cunnan doesn't generally allow. Feel free to move it into the article page if you want to though.

Also, any chance of a sample of your art as an MP3? We're sorely lacking on sound clips and I can't be the only one who's keen to hear you.

We hope you'll stay a while and help make Cunnan a better resource.

[[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 13:11, 21 April 2007 (EST)

Talk:The Pippins

2007-04-21T03:00:42Z

Tobin: Rehersal log.

== Rehersal Log ==
I'm not sure the rehearsal log is relevant to Cunnan so I've moved it here instead of to the article. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 13:00, 21 April 2007 (EST)

4/19
Margot Laboret Les Vinges,
Sing With Thy Mouth,
Martin Said To His Man

Pippins Rehearsal Log

2007-04-21T02:58:58Z

Tobin: Redirect to The Pippins

#REDIRECT [[The Pippins]]

Pippins Repertoire

2007-04-21T02:57:57Z

Tobin: Redirect to The Pippins

#REDIRECT [[The Pippins]]

Pippins Pictures

2007-04-21T02:57:45Z

Tobin: Redirect to The Pippins

#REDIRECT [[The Pippins]]

Pippins Performance Calendar

2007-04-21T02:57:26Z

Tobin: Redirect to The Pippins

#REDIRECT [[The Pippins]]

The Pippins

2007-04-21T02:57:00Z

Tobin: Move in seperate articles and reformat picture.

[[Image:Pop2.jpg|The Pippins|right|thumb]]
'''The Pippins''' is an [[SCA]] [[madrigal]] [[singing|choir]] from [[Tree Girt Sea]] in the [[Midrealm]] (Chicago) that performs mostly pre-[[16th century]] [[madrigal]]s, [[motet]]s, [[round]]s, and [[carol]]s, with occasional forays into PDQ Bach. The Pippins were founded in [[1996]] and have been rehearsing and performing regularly since then.

The Pippins have received the [[Order of the Grove]] ([[arts]] [[award]]), and have taken 1st place in numerous [[Arts and Sciences]] competitions.

The Pippins perform primarily at SCA [[event]]s, but also perform at Christkindlmarkt in Chicago and the Bristol [[Renaissance Faire]], and are always looking for additional venues for performance.

== Repertoire ==
{| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5" align="center"}
! [[Song]]
! [[Composer]]
! Date
! [[Language]]
|-
| As I out rode this enderes night (The Coventry Shepherd's Carol)
|
| 16th Century
| [[English]]
|-
| By a Bank
| Thomas Ravenscroft
|
| English
|-
| Carro Della Morte
| Antoni Alamanni
|
| [[Italian]]
|-
| Come Again! Sweet Love Doth Now Invite
|
| 1597
| English
|-
| Coventry Carol
|
| 1591
| English
|-
| Dindirin, dindirin
| Anon
| 1500
| [[French]]
|-
| Dixit Maria
| Hans Leo Hassler
| 1564-1612
| [[Latin]]
|-
| Es ist ein Schnee gefallen
| Casper Othmayr
| 16th Century
| [[German]]
|-
| [[Gaudete]]
|
| 1582
| English
|-
| Green Grow'th the Holly
| [[Henry VIII]] of [[England]]
| 16th Century
| [[English]]
|-
| I Love, Alas, I Love Thee
| Thomas Morley
|
| [[English]]
|-
| Il Est Bel Et Bon
| Pierre Passereau
| 1536
| [[French]]
|-
| In Dulci Jubilo
|
| [[14th Century]]
| [[German]]
|-
| Innsbruck, ich muss dich lassen
| Heinrich Isaac
| [[15th Century]]
| [[German]]
|-
| La Bomba
| Mateo de Fletcha (The Elder)
| [[15th Century]]
| Iberian Mix
|-
| Lady, the Silly Flea
| Giles Farnaby
| 1598
| [[English]]
|-
| Lirum Bililirum
| Rossino Mantovano
| 1510
| Latin
|-
| O lusty May
| Anonymus
|
| [[Scottish]] (Northern [[English]]).
|-
| O Magnum Mysterium
| Tomas Luis De Victoria
|
| Latin
|-
| Oy es dia de placer
| Tomas Pascual
| 1600
| American [[Spanish]]
|-
| Pucelete-Je languis-Domino (Motet)
|
| [[13th Century]]
| French, Latin
|-
| Pucellotte Not-a-Motet
| Antoine Busnois
|
| French, Latin
|-
| Shall I Go Walk
|
|
| [[English]]
|-
| Sing With Thy Mouth
|
|
| [[English]]
|-
| Stella Splendens
|
| 14th Century
| [[Latin]]
|-
| [[Sumer is Icumen In]]
|
|
| [[Middle English]]
|-
| Tant que vivray
| Claudin de Sermisy
|
| French
|-
| There is no rose
| Anon
| 1420
| [[English]]
|-
| Tutte Le Vecchie Son Maleciose
| Di Maio
|
| [[Spanish]]
|-
| Veni Veni Emmanuel
| Anon
| 8th Cent
| Latin
|-
|}

== Performance Calendar ==
{| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5" align="center"}
! Place
! Location
! Date(s)
|-
| Jubilee Olde English Faire
| Brimfield, IL (Illiton)
| 6/16/07
|-
| Bristol Renaissance Faire
| Bristol, WI (Just over the IL/WI border on 94, Russell Rd. Exit)
| TBD
|-
| Pennsic War 36
| Slippery Rock, PA
| ?8/4/07 - 8/11/07
|-
| Christkindlmarkt
| Daley Plaza Chicago, IL
| Late November/Early to Mid December
|-
|}

== Pictures ==
* [http://www.flickr.com/groups/pippins/ Pippins Photo Dump]
* [http://new.photos.yahoo.com/jenrsmall/album/576460762373395400 Mistress Gianetta's Pictures]

600

2007-03-03T18:35:39Z

Tobin: 7th century. You start couting from zero.

== Births ==
*

== Deaths ==
*

== Events ==
*

''See also''
* [[7th Century]]
* [[Centuries]]
* [[Period]]

[[Category: Years - medieval]]

Cunnan:Village pump

2007-03-01T03:20:54Z

Tobin: /* Spammers */

Skep

2007-02-13T08:49:19Z

Tobin: Skeps aren't generally legal.

A '''skep''' is a [[beehive]] consisting of an upside-down [[wicker]] or straw [[basket]]. Later forms of skep were made from [[clay]]. In much of the developed modern world these are now illegal as they don't allow for the comb to be removed for inspection.

The craft of producing skeps had almost died out and the number producing these in the [[UK]] is very small. Such tradtional crafts are currently undergoing a resergence of interest.

==Internal Links==
''See also:''
* [[apiarist]]
[[category:artefact (medieval)]]

Cunnan:Wiki newcomers hints

2006-11-27T02:31:43Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 66.240.221.36 (Talk); changed back to last version by Tiff

In brief:
*yes, you too can edit pages!
*want to experiment without stuffing up anything? - try the [[Cunnan:sandbox|sandbox]]
*how do I edit pages? - read the guide: [[Cunnan:How_does_one_edit_a_page]]
*remember we have [[copyright rules]]

=FAQ=
===What can I write about? ===

Like they say, write what you know. The main page says Cunnan is all about "information for re-enactors of the Middle Ages and Renaissance with a heavy slant towards members of the SCA". If it's useful for re-enactors, write away! This is often explanations of rare words, descriptions of how things were viewed in the medieval world, short medieval histories of people and places, or advice on how to recreate an aspect of history. But don't stop there!

===But I don't know any history or stuff, what else can I write about===
You could write about experiences, words and practises found in the SCA and other reenactment groups. Also you could pick a random unwritten page on a medieval topic, read a few other good webpages or a few pages of a book on the topic, and give a 3 sentence summary of their content and a link to the pages consulted. You can always ask someone local to you to describe a topic and type in what they say (acknowledging their contribution helps). You'll find out new information,and we will too when you write it here.

Or you can help by correcting our spelling, adding links and generally tidying up the content of the wiki.

===How can I ask for help?===
Write a note on the village pump is often quickest and best, or other wise you could email admins. The admins can be found at [[Special:Listadmins]].

===I want to move a page or do other tricky stuff===
Some features are just hidden a bit - take a better look at what options are available under [[special:special pages|special pages]] in the toolbox on the left of your screen (you may need to scroll down a bit).

There are a lot more things you can do that are hidden here. But some features such as moving and deleting pages have been restricted to loggged in users, other to admins. This is because we don't want every spammer or vandal who turns up to be able to destroy the wiki (it can be brought back but that's a lot of time that could be spent adding content instead). Stick around for a while, contributing articles and you'll probably get your acess level increased. In the meantime, leave a note in the [[cunnan:village pump|village pump]] saying which page you wanted to move or what else you wanted to do and why (briefly) and the next person with suitable acess will probably fix it for you.

[[Category:Help|Wiki newcomers hints]]

Wiki

2006-11-27T02:31:43Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 66.240.221.36 (Talk); changed back to last version by Tiff

'''WikiWiki''' is Hawaiian meaning "quick". A WikiWikiWeb is a website that can be edited by all users with the responsibility for accuracy and control resting with the community and not with an individual (such as a webmaster). The [http://c2.com/cgi-bin/wiki Portland Pattern Repository] was the first wiki, established by Ward Cunningham in 1995.

[[Cunnan]] is a WikiWikiWeb that was started in March [[2003]] to provide information useful to people interested in [[re-enactment]] of [[Europe]]an society and skills for the [[period]] between [[600]][[AD]] and [[1600]][[AD]]. The software that Cunnan uses is called PediaWiki and more information on it can be found at http://wikipedia.sourceforge.net

== Other WikiWebs ==
* The [[Wikipedia]] - http://www.wikipedia.org
* [[Arrowsreach Wiki]]
* [http://www.midrealm.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page Midrealm wiki]

[[category:wiki]]

Category:Wiki

2006-11-27T02:31:42Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 66.240.221.36 (Talk); changed back to last version by Tiff

Pages relating to specific [[wiki]]s, or wikis in general.

Stone carving

2006-11-27T02:31:41Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 66.240.221.36 (Talk); changed back to last version by Tiff

'''Stone Carving''' is the reduction of a block of [[stone]] to a finished state using a variety of [[tool]]s. Procedures of carving processes can be used to create masonry for construction or for decorative purposes or both combined. Stone Carving has evolved slowly; many of the same techniques have been used for millennia. The recent trend to modernization of tools, the use of air guns, computer controlled cutters etc., cannot yet improve upon works finished by hand. Anyone able to swing a [[hammer]] and hold a [[chisel]] at the same time can attempt to carve. The tools required to start are relatively inexpensive and few, and yet to obtain a complete array of tools to run a full size workshop would cost several hundreds of dollars.

== Stone ==
The stone used is a wide in variety, from igneous to sedimentary, hard to exceptionally soft. The most common stones carved are granite, sandstone, marble, and limestone. Others such as basalt, soapstone, alabaster are also occasionally carved. With certain stone care must be taken not to breathe the resulting dust, especially sandstone and granite which releases silicates that destroy lung tissue. Other stones may contain other dangerous minerals such as asbestos, for example Tigers Eye.

The choice of stone is predicated upon the necessity of durability, weatherability, color, availability, cost and ease of carving.

== Necessary tools ==
The most basic tools required are a hammer and chisel.

[[Hammer]]s come in a variety of shapes weights and sizes and are generally described in units of ounces. The masons hammer has a rectangular flat faced head and a relatively short shaft compared to a framing hammer used in common carpentry. For strong application of energy the face is used, in order to use the mass effectively to transfer smaller amounts of energy the side of the hammer head is used. By adjusting the degree of force the amount of material removed in a single stroke can be modified. The greater the force the larger the amount of material removed and the greater the chance the block will react poorly and split in unforeseen ways. Hammers come in a variety of weights from a few ounces to several pounds. The heavier they are the better for mass removal whereas the lighter are better for fine control. Hammers also are obtainable in two standard materials, [[iron]] and hardened [[steel]]. The hardened steel is for general use on any stone. An iron headed hammer is somewhat softer and is meant for marble which often has a higher fragility so the extra shock absorbation reduces the risk of shattering the stone. [[Mallet]]s are another variety of hammer that are a specialized group that have larger heads that are made out of [[wood]] (general a fruit wood like apple which has extremely strong and close grain) or synthetics. There are two basic styles of mallet, French and English. The French mallet consists of a round drum which the shaft passes through the center of the diameter of the drums altitude. The English mallet is the drum is perpendicular to the shaft. The French mallet is preferable to the English in that it allows finer adjustments in the transfer of energy and is more forgiving when not swung correctly at the chisel base. French mallets are most effective when the chisel is struck with the widest part of the drum which is closer to the shaft.

<gallery>
Image:mhammer.jpg|A hammer
Image:Englishm.jpg|English Mallet
Image:frenchm.jpg|French Mallet
</gallery>

The [[chisel]] is obtainable in a wide variety of sizes and shapes for various functions. The major classes of chisels are for use with hammers, or air guns, and mallets.. The two classes of chisel are differentiated by their ends one having a flat surface and the other having a bulb. A chisel intended for a mallet must never be hit with a hammer as the bulb that receives the energy will bloom or flatten out this will then damage the head of the mallet.

<gallery>
Image:chiselm.jpg|Chisel for mallet
Image:chisel.jpg|Chisel for hammer
</gallery>

Chisels can further be divided into several other categories. There are chisels intended for various classes of stones. There is one type of chisel especially for marble differentiated by the appearance of a head that has a neck that narrows perceptibly and then widens to the diameter of the shaft. The purpose is to allow sufficient recoil from the blows so that the stone does not simply explode. For harder stones chisels expand straight from the head to base in order to provide more mass to absorb the shock. Chisels must be properly tempered to retain a sharp edge. A sharp chisel is an absolutely necessity. A dull chisel will chatter, producing uneven results and also increase the tendency of the chisel to pluck large chunks from the stone being worked. There are several distinct forms of chisels. They are flat, forked, bullnose, semi circular gouge, point, and blunt. The flat chisel is for finish work. The forked chisel can be used to remove larger amounts of material and can be used to create patterned surfaces. This particular chisel was introduced around the 13th century, being the latest introduction in the chisel family. The bullnose is used to carve convex surfaces. The semi-circular gouge also used for making convex surfaces but of a more complex form. The point is used for breaking large amounts of material away. The blunt is used immediately after a point to reduce the remaining large masses.

Finally the most important tool for transferring the drawing to the block is the scribe. A very narrow pen-like pointed chisel that is has a hardened tip made of tool steel. This device is used by simply running it along the lines drawn on the block in pencil. Never use pens as the inks may bleed into the stone marring the color of the finished product. Weird but true.

== Secondary tools ==

Saws, drills, riffles, French drags, sandpaper,
ruler, square, calipers, dividers, French curve, compass

=== Saws ===
[[Saw]]s come in a variety of types. Circular saws are generally powered pneumatically or electrically the blades of which are impregnated with diamond chips or dust. There are chainsaws that are also specially designed to use diamond coated blades. Regular crosscut saws are used for sawing soft stones and are recognizable by their enormous teeth and elevated handle which allows the entire blade to sink through a block with out becoming obstructed by the handle. For use with limestone and other soft stone they are a worthwhile investment.

=== Drills ===
Drills in period were star shaped, hence the name, star-drill. To use you strike forcibly rotate, strike again rotate, until the desired depth is achieved. Modern drills dispense with this monotony and are easier to maintain. Carbide tips and diamond tip bits being readily available for the driver of choice.

=== Riffles ===
Riffles are basically a type of file that is used for stone. The teeth are widely spaced and raised up higher than a normal file. They are used to get into tight spaces and to finish surfaces. They should be used minimally the chief work being accomplished by the chisel which is a vastly less expensive tool.

=== French Drags ===
French drags are somewhat the equivalent of the [[plane]] in carpentry. They are used for soft stones and consist of [[blade]]s set at alternating angles, between 15 and 30 degrees, over the length of a block of [[wood]]. The blades are toothed to provide even removal of surface material. Some drags can be fitted with specially shaped blades to follow convex surfaces. It is important to always run a drag towards the center of a block and never out across an edge. These tools are especially useful for final preparation of large surfaces.

=== Sandpaper ===
Sandpaper comes in a variety of grits and is useful for adjusting the degree of polish on the final surface. Marble in particular benefits from such treatment and it is possible to obtain widely different polishes on a single block that can help differentiate flesh from fabric or other indicated surfaces.

=== Other ===
The remaining tools while all esentially drafting tools are desirable to have more heavily built and therefore durable tools for use with stone carving. The square, ruler, divider, caliper, compass, and French curve are all used for either measuring an extant piece or laying out the drawing on a block prior to carving.

=== Drawing ===
Drawing is oddly enough one of the most important skills that one can have for carving. In order to create any really well made sculpture, which adheres to stylistic principles of a genre, one must be able to draw. This skill is useful to visualize patterns in order to guide the carving process so that you may avoid getting lost in the stone and producing something that is a naive and uninformed effort. Drawing also enables one an inexpensive method of exploring how to proceed before making an insurmountable error. Additionally it sharpens the eye and forces the mind to translate from a three dimensional space to a two dimensional space which is useful since frequently the reverse is true when first working a block. Many of the tools used for drawing are listed as tools also for carving since they can be used to transfer the drawings onto the block directly. Templates, made of [[paper]], [[plastic]], or any conveniently shapeable flat material that may be used over an extended period of time, may be used to reproduce portions of a drawing on a block, or, in the case of replication, several blocks or even faces of the same block. This transfer is accomplished by the use of the stylus. It is not a good thing to use a pen or pencil on the stone as it will leaves stains and like as not destroy your writing implement as well.

== External links ==
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocks List of rocktypes]
[[category:arts]]

Shire of Arrowsreach

2006-11-27T02:31:40Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 66.240.221.36 (Talk); changed back to last version by Tiff

[[Image:Arrowsreach_device_small.png|right]]

The '''Shire of Arrowsreach''' is the [[SCA]] [[groups|group]] in the [[North eastern suburbs of Melbourne]]. Of course anyone can join any group or subgroup, so not everyone lives in this area, nor does everyone who lives in this area belong to this group, but it will mean events are close to home for people who live in this area.

While everyone knows it as Arrowsreach, it was infact registered with the [[College of Arms]] as ''Arrowreach''.

* [[Why Arrowsreach isn't part of Stormhold]].
* [[events in Arrowsreach]]
* History of Arrowsreach - go to their website http://www.arrowsreach.com/

* Neighbouring SCA Groups
** [[Barony of Stormhold]]
** [[Shire of Krae Glas]]
** [[Shire of Bordescros]]

* Noted [[household]]s of Arrowreach:
** [[House Saarlands]]
** [[the Axemen]]

== External Links ==
* Websites of Important people
** [[http://www.portallus.com/people/emlyn/ Emlyn ap Rhys]]

* Arts and Sciences
** [[http://www.florilegium.org/ Florilegium]]
** [[http://www.heraldicclipart.com/ Heralic Clipart]]
** [[http://shadowmist.hfsinchaos.com/links2.html Links to SCA resources]]
** [[http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SHOEHOME.HTM Footware]]
** [[http://www.larp.com/legioxx/ The Twentieth Legion]] Imperial Roman Group.

* Fighting
** [[http://www.sca.org.au/marshal/ Lochac Marshallate Home Page]]
** [[http://www.bellatrix.org/school/ Bellatrix Fighting School]]
** [[http://www.geocities.com/earlygunnery/ Early Gunnery]]
** [[Polarm Descriptions]]
** [[http://www.armourarchive.org/ Amour Archive]]
** [[http://www.combat-archery.com Combat Archery Website]]
** [[http://www.thelostboys.org/army/equipment.html Equipment Guide]] for Heavy Fighters
** [[http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/garments/Charles_blois/Charles_blois.html Historical Surcoat]] with patterns.

* Heraldry
** [[http://www.heraldicclipart.com/ Heraldic Clip Art]]

* Friends that we know
** [[http://www.angevintreasures.com/ Angevin Treasures]]
** [[http://www.angevintreasures.com/wystle/ Master Efenwealt]]
** [[http://sui-001.livejournal.com/ Sui's Wonderful Stuff]]

Photos Of Stuff
** [[http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Bridge/7900/lcnov02.htm Lochac November Crown AS XXXVII]]

Other Places of Interest
** [[http://www.crossroads.org.au/ CrossRoads]] A Medieval Villiage in New South Wales.
** [[http://scademo.com/demo.links.php SCA Demo Website]]

Merchants
** [[http://www.theringlord.com/ The Ring Lord]] Chainmail Ring Supplier
** [[http://www.nswleather.com/ NSW Leather]] 107-109 Sackville Street, Collingwood VIC, 3066
** [[http://www.leffler.com.au/ Leffler Leather]] 50 -66 York St South Melbourne 3205
** [[http://www.plasticlamellar.com/ Plastic Lamellar]] Armour Plates (USA)
** [[http://www.pacomp.com.au/ Pacific Composites]] possible supplier of Fibreglass Poles

[[Category:Shires (SCA)|Arrowsreach]]

Category talk:Wiki

2006-11-27T02:31:39Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 66.240.221.36 (Talk); changed back to last version by Tiff

All the pages in this category have a bad link to [[:category:Wiki|this category]]. If clicked, it takes you to the editting version of this page, without the member list of the category. Is Wiki a reserved word for categories? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 12:14, 3 May 2006 (EST)

Cunnan:Old Village pump discussions (moved 2004)

2006-11-27T02:31:38Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 66.240.221.36 (Talk); changed back to last version by Cian

This page contains old discussions from the [[Cunnan:Village pump|Village pump]]. If you need to talk about these issues again please do so there and not here.

== Old topics ==
=== Headline news ===

OK, I want a new major category for an idea I've been kicking around for a while. I want to do a series of pages, with the high points of the news of the day for a place and other things that someone living there would know. I dont so much want wars and battles, but when the new bridge got put up, who the King is sleeping with this week, who the top poets are and whether or not the harvest was good or bad. I've got some scrawled notes for 1589, and I'd like a set of pages I can do ... a "News from a Place and Time" section would be ideal. And could I please appeal for some way to easily put footnotes into Wiki ? I'm a footnote junkie, because that empowers readers to go do their own research.
[[User:Anton|Anton]]

:Thats an interesting idea. I'd say the best way to go about it would be to link to pages with names like <nowiki>[[News from 1066]]</nowiki> of <nowiki>[[News from 1066, England]]</nowiki> from the different [[period|centuries]]. If there were lots of these pages we'd have to start dividing the centuries into decades. Anyway, the best thing to do now would be to create a [[Cunnan:Period headline news|sample page of headlines]] so that we can all comment on it. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

=== Working with Wikipedia and other online material ===

How do people see this site working with content on http://www.wikipedia.org (or other sites I suppose)? If wikipedia has good content on some topic of interest, do we just address the re-enactment aspect and use an external links section to point people to the wikipedia page? Problem there is that as people surf they end up leaving this site and there won't likely be links to bring them back. Alternatively, we could copy over content from wikipedia so that linked content would point to the Cunnan version, but the obvious problem here is redundant maintainence. Whatever the consensus, it seems the style guide could say a little more about this. [[User:JakeVortex|JakeVortex]] 10:34, 30 Oct 2003 (EST)

:When I've moved in info from the wikipedia I've tried to re-word it so that its a bit more SCA relevant. I'd say that the best way to work with wikipedia content is to move it into Cunnan and work from there, that way we can add whatever we feel is needed to the article without worrying about the goals of the wikipedia. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

On a related topic, would it be possible / desirable to make all external links open in a new window? [[User:Conrad_Leviston|Conrad]]

:It would be possible but it is not something I'd like to do. It would mean making some changes to the wiki software which would make it very hard to upgrade. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

The main problems I have with some of the stuff in Wikipedia is that it is either (a) wrong, being often based on cuts from, say, 1905 editions of encyclopediae, which are in turn based on research conducted in the 1800's, or (b) not applicable to SCA folks.

:If it is wrong or dated, it seems better to fix it there than to make a new copy here. I agree with the comments that the value of pages here is to make the content relevant to SCA folks. ~ [[User:JakeVortex|JakeVortex]]

Now I don't have a problem with a lot of it. It's relevant and accurate and stuff, and we needn't reproduce it here. e.g. the various biographical articles which are quite detailed. Some of their other articles contain a number of innacuracies and/or prejudices, however. Also, an article on, say, the third crusade, for which wikipedia gives the dry facts, is really only useful here if you take the view of how you would handle your persona if he or she were living, say, in the levant in the time of that crusade.

For that reason I'll continue my current approach of linking to wikipedia articles where appropriate, copying and revising where necessary, and re-writing from scratch with links to the original where I feel it benefits Cunnan for me to do that.

[[User:Del|Del]] 16:59, 17 Nov 2003 (EST)

=== Standard format for attribution ===
For those that haven't been following the conversation happening in another part of the wiki the topic of attribution for original text has come up. Since we have, at least, one person who insists upon having this style of attribution in the article (and not just the article history) I think there should be some discussion of a standard format.

I don't like the idea of this being used for articles that have been written ''for'' the wiki (since the original author will always be recorded by the software in this case and it is contrary to the wiki ideal) but I do think that it would good for this to be included in articles started using content previously published elsewhere (since the original author may not have been the person who added it to the wiki).

The format I propose is as follows:

----

==== Attribution ====
Much of this article is based on an original article by ''Person XYZ'', you can find a copy of the original article at ''some location (Possibly the article history?)''

----

What do people think of this format? When should/shouldn't attribution be included? - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

:Personally, I think that if somebody wants to have their own perspective with attribution on the wiki I would like to see it done the following way:

:The person would put either a stub or non-controversial entry for the topic in question (eg. the reformation started when Martin Luther accidentally nailed his laundry list to the church door). At the bottom would be a ''See also'' list including something like ''Anton's perspective of the Reformation''.

:Given his writing style and depth of knowledge and writing style I would go out of my way to look at what Anton has to say on a subject. Having extra pages along these lines would IMO add an extra dimension to the wiki, while still retaining its original flavour. Everybody still gets to have their input on the main article page, while individuals are able to put forward a consistant, well thought out point of view in a single article. Best of all no extra coding is required. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]]

=== Software Upgrade ===
I'll soon be upgrading the wiki software. This means that the wiki will be locked for a short while and that things may appear to be broken. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]
:The software upgrade seems to have been successful. If you spot any weirdness be sure to mention it here.

:It might be a good idea for everyone to log out and then in again to help clear up any user preference issues - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]
::I just noticed that some of the skins don't seem to be working (Cologne Blue is almost useless), I'll try to fix this quickly. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]
:::Skins are fixed again. The database is now read/write so people can begin editing again. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

For people who asked me if the article count was accurate: It wasn't but it is now. We have 1033 articles (a bit of a difference!). - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

=== Categories ===
The current stable version of the Mediawiki software, which Cunnan is running, doesn't include the experimental Category feature. This means that there are some articles that contain <nowiki>[[Category:whatever]]</nowiki> which no longer do anything special. I've deleted the Category: articles but pages linking to them will still need to be cleaned. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

=== Enhanced special pages links ===
It is now possible to link to specific cases of the special pages. Eg <nowiki>[[Special:Whatlinkshere/Heraldry]]</nowiki> will create [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Heraldry]], a list of all pages that link to the Heraldry article. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] ([[Special:Contributions/Tobin|See my contributions]], another example of the enhanced special page links ;-)

=== RFEs ===

Two enhancements I'd like to see:

* A piece of javascript to place the cursor into the search box on entering the main frame. It would be a few liners in the main template. I'll see if I can dig out the code and paste it here.
* A search for links type page where I can find what links to a certain article without creating the article. e.g. I've written a bunch of pages with links to, say, lollard, lollardry, lollardy, lollards, etc, and I want to find them all in turn if I have to but fix the links so I only create one "lollard" page.

=== Finding a specific users contributions ===
I was trying to find an anton's first news headlines article, and anyway i realised I couldn't work out how to view a list of anton's contributions. I'm not fussed if you decide to keep this private, but I believe you've been running under the idea that anyone could *easily* find out what annother contributor has been editting. New software issue? Lack of Links ot help me? i don't know - tell me.
And I'm still trying to that article...
[[User:Tiff|Tiff]]
:At the bottom of every user page is a "User contributions" link. You can also link to these like so: <nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/Some user name]]</nowiki> e.g. [[Special:Contributions/Tiff]]. Anton's contributions can be found at [[Special:Contributions/Anton]] (a few of his edits have been made when he wasn't logged in these can be found at [[Special:Contributions/210.9.142.25]]. Remember though that edits made by someone who is not logged in could actually have been made by anyone, we shouldn't be quick to assume who an anonymous user is). Anyway, Anton's page of sample headlines can be found at [[Cunnan:Period headline news]] (it wont show up when you search unless you specify that the software should look in the "Cunnan:" namespace. This option appears at the bottom of the search results page). - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

=== Footnotes. ===

I just noticed a nice way of handling footnotes on the Wikipedia. It is not only possible to link to headings on another page. It is also possible to link to a heading withing the current page e.g <nowiki>[[#Footnote|1]]</nowiki> is translated into a "swish" looking footnote link[[#Footnote|1]] (<--- there it is). If people would like to use this style of footnotes then it might be best to use symbols not numbers as the link text (or an abbreviation of the reference name, etc). - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 21:16, 15 Dec 2003 (EST)

==== Footnote ====
This is where the footnote link links to. Nice isn't it?

=== Lochac-centrism? ===

I realise that Cunnan is hosted by and mostly maintained by folks from Lochac. My question is, is there an active intent to make the information on it Lochac-centric, or would you like the information to be more widely applicable?

To give an example of what I mean: take a look at [[non-combatant]], and read it while keeping in mind that most [[Kingdoms]] have completely different rules for light armour and suchlike. The information given is regionally specific but is not identified as such.

Should it be identified as such? Would you appreciate broader perspectives? Or, if this is intended as a largely Lochacian resource, would it be a good idea to put a prominent notice somewhere informing visitors of this fact?

(ex-Lochac, now in [[Ealdormere]])

Just one voice of many, but..
Personally I'd like to see the widest possible audience for this wiki, with the focus being simply a consequence of the users. So I like lochac and sca specific info, but I prefer giving a general introduction, then saying "in lochac...." or having subsections of articles eg "favours in the sca" after "medieval favours"
Sometimes I think articles will be entirely in a subsection eg I think the persona article could be given the subtitle "personas in the sca", enabling other types of personas to be added if anyone comes across them. But since we've labelled this as a sca wiki I'm not so fussy about that as I sound.
And finally, yes you are one of the perfect people to help label the wiki thusly - you know what we are talking about when we slip in Lochac centric stuff, and also know which bits are done differently elsewhere (which we often don't).
[[User:Tiff|Tiff]]

:I'd think it would be very nice to give the wiki a more general, non-lochac centric feel. Part of this will mean trying to attract more contributors from other kingdoms. If you want to edit something to make it more general then go right ahead! There is no reason for us not to try and cover the entire of the SCA, wiki isn't paper. We can, and should, be as comprehensive as possible! :-)

:Much of the Lochac bent that articles have is obviously the result of the people doing the editing (some of the old, old articles still have a [[College of St Monica|St. Monican]] feel to them.) We should expand the article on [[cunnan]] to explain how we got where we are today. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

::I added a [[Cunnan::Lochac-centrism]] page to organize clean up, and proposed some boiler plate for pages that need attention. ~ [[User:JakeVortex|JakeVortex]]

::I moved the page to [[Cunnan:Regional point of view]] (or [[RPOV]]) since I am just as apt to write something An Tir-centric. ~ [[User:JakeVortex|JakeVortex]]

=== Redaction Project ===
In case someone hasn't already noticed I've imported all the recipes from the [[Forme of Cury]] into Cunnan. They're useful on their own but they would be aven better with redactions! To help make this happen I've written a set of [[Cunnan:Redaction project instructions|Redaction project instructions]] and have cleaned up [[Cunnan:Recipes from the Forme of Cury|Recipes from the Forme of Cury]] to help identify redacted/unredacted recipes. Both pages need to be examined by other users

I've spoken to a few people in [[Krae Glas]] and they are (were?) interested in this project so I was planning on testing the instructions/format on the group there before I started announcing this on various mailing lists. Of course, since this is in the wiki anyone is welcome to start now and recruit others (I just wanted to test things out first).

So, have I missed anything obvious in the instructions? Can anyone think of a better way to handle this? - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

=== Interwiki links ===
The wiki software provides an easy, wiki style, way to link to other sites. For example <nowiki>[[Google:Cunnan]]</nowiki> creates [[Google:Cunnan]]. The list of sites that can be linked to in this way is something that I can easily change if people want me to.

I think it would be useful for us to compile a list of sites that it would be nice for us to be able to link to. Group websites and archives. I'm not keen on the idea of individual's sites but I'm not against them either.

Do people think that this is important enough for us to bother compiling a list? - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

: This is great! It seems to already support en.wikipedia.org. It would be great to have a list of what all was supported. Be nice to have other related wikis like wiktionary.org and elizabethangeek. ~ [[User:JakeVortex|JakeVortex]] 07:12, 13 Jan 2004 (EST)

::I'll copy the complete list to [[Cunnan:Interwiki]]. Currently the list is full of sites which are in no way relevant to the SCA. I propose we empty the list, with the exception of prefixes we currently use, and start over. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

=== Years ===
The method for pages of years in the modern era seems to be fairly ad hoc. at the moment, so I'd like to propose a standard format.

Firstly, years in CE format (eg [[2002]]) should contain only events outside "the game". This would probably include things like archaeological finds (bananas in a Tudor midden heap etc.) and important events in the life of Cunnan. AS years should contain "in game" events, such as Lochac going crown. AS years could link to the concurrent CE years and vice versa.

Secondly, AS years should include "AS" in their title (ie [[AS XXXIV]], not [[XXXIV]]).

This will require a bit of tedious fiddling about, but unless anybody raises objections or has a better idea I'll start on the new format in a few days time. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 23:01, 24 Mar 2004 (EST)

OK, I've done that, except I have included dots in AS (ie the link reads as [[A.S. XXXIV]]). I figure links without dots can be turned into redirect pages as they show up. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 22:37, 28 Apr 2004 (EST)

*I can see you've put in the hard yards, Conrad - good work. Now we just have to make it easy for people to maintain. One problem that will crop up is that not many people think in A.S. We can mitigate this by (as you said) linking CE -> A.S., and adding an A.S. timeline article to the main page. [[User:Morgant|Morgant]] 22:45, 28 Apr 2004 (EST)

=== Software upgrade time ===
It is time for the wiki software to be upgraded again as we are lagging behind the current Mediawiki version. There will be some hand new features introduced by this upgrade, including better image handling (thumbnails alignment). Take a look at: http://wikipedia.sourceforge.net/ for more information on Mediawiki development.

The upgrade should take less than an hour but the database will be locked during that time. I'll try to make sure it happens during a "slow" moment. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 23:52, 28 Mar 2004 (EST)

* The upgrade should be over now and everything appears to be working (although all out links vanished for a few minutes there after something in the settings exploded). If anything doesn't work as expected Leave a note here. I'll explain the new features and changes when I have time. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 11:09, 29 Mar 2004 (EST)

=== 222.183.0.0/16 range blocked ===
Since the link spammers working from addresses in the 222.183.xxx.xxx range don't seem to have taken the hint I've blocked all IP addresses in the range 222.183.0.0/16 (that is from 222.183.0.0 to 222.183.255.254).

This block covers 65,536 addresses so it is possible but very unlikely that it will affect a legitimate editor. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 19:03, 28 Apr 2004 (EST)

*I don't think it took, Tobin - our friend's back again. I'll email you what I think the problem is. [[User:Morgant|Morgant]] 20:16, 29 Apr 2004 (EST)
**The block should now work. "Thank you" to Morgant for his help on this. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 23:19, 29 Apr 2004 (EST)

=== More Chinese Link Spam ===
The Chinese link spammers are starting to annoy me. I've blocked another range of addresses: 218.13.0.0/16 (that is from 218.13.0.0 to 218.13.255.254)

I don't like to use range blocks in this way but I don't think any of us feel like spending all our time cleaning up after them.

The problem with this new block, in particular, is that the start of the address range covers American IP addresses and might stop a legitimate editor.

The block can be removed at some time we agree on but I suspect we'll need to leave it for at least a fortnight.

If anyone has a problem with these kinds of blocks then please discuss it here. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 15:26, 30 Apr 2004 (EST)

=== varangian household ===
I am wondering wher this varangian household is based out of. I am in Atenveldt, but learned under steingrim in An Tir. I also want to know if we Varangoi can camp and fight together at Estrella, which is 1 1/2 hours from my house. Please e-mail me at skerritheviking@yahoo.com. I think it would be interesting to get sort of an international standard on things, like cloaks and rank, loosley in place!

If it is the entry under [[Varangian]], then this is an australian non-sca metal weapons recreational group. I am not sure of the origins of this group (it might be a former sca member), but it is a whole organisation, much larger than a household. I doubt if any will be able to make it to estrella, this being a long way from australia, and also not their normal fighting style (they do sometimes do archery with the sca here, but lochac archery is very differnt from american sca archery), but perhaps if you follow the web link provided, you can invite them to if ever buisness or holidays take them to america.
[[User:Tiff|Tiff]]

User talk:Simoncursitor

2006-11-27T02:31:37Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 66.240.221.36 (Talk); changed back to last version by Cian

Hello and welcome to Cunnan,

Good work on what you've been working on so far, we normally start by encouraging new users to make edits but you've beaten us to it. Feel free to edit [[User:Simoncursitor|your user page]] to tell us about yourself and link to any other websites you're involved in.

One small tip: you can sign your user-name on talk pages by typing <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> for something like "[[User:Tobin|Tobin]]" or by typing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> for "[[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 09:04, 7 Oct 2004 (EST)".

[[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

===Kingdom of Alvia===
Since you added it to [[Other re-enactment sites]], could you explain what exactly Alvia is coz the homepage confuses me. Is it a fictional kingdom played within [[Far Isles]] or is it a breakaway group from Far Isles? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]]

:Alvia as such never existed, and, in due course, will come off here. It was "invented" as a Far Isles plot device. I offered to flesh it out, did so, and found that the people who'd started it had forgotten saying I could, and thought someone had run with the idea and founded it. However, the FI have stuck with it and (for those who don't know the *truth*) I don't want to spoil the illusion that it might be Out There Somewhere. It's here short-term simply for that reason (and because I built the p*gg*ng web-site and I'm proud(-ish) of it. Thank you for bothering to look at it. It will also die eventually, but I have three more heraldic devices to put on, and several Guilds yet to do. Not to mention possibly the Return of Wicked!Alix and her Dupe-Princess!Ysabeau.
:--[[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 18:42, 4 Nov 2004 (EST)
<hr>
Some really beautiful writing about english monachs. thankyou[[User:Tiff|Tiff]] 08:22, 5 Jan 2005 (CST)

"post-racialist Uk PoV"? Your additions are good and in-depth, so what is a "post-racialist"? Are you meaning a modern Brit having a Roman PoV in the timeline of the "post-Roman Empire"? - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]]
No, merely writing as someone whose ancestors were probably at least indirectly responsible for the annihilation of African civilization. We will certainly have benefited from it, given that without it there would be no British Empire, just a muddy island occasionally conquered by the [[France|French]].

==User Status==

You have just been upgraded to sysop level. As you did not ask for this you will be relieved to know that this status comes with no obligations. It does however allow you to do a number of things such as edit the Main Page, and block spammers. To block spammers go to the Recent Changes page, where the block option will come up for any user that has not logged in (ie, they are an IP address). If they have logged in, you can block them by going to Special pages, scrolling to the bottom, clicking on Block User and typing in their name.

There are a couple of other minor things you can do, including protecting pages, but there is only one page where it was felt that was necessary, so it's not a commonly used power.

If you have any further questions, just put them up here. In part this is our way of saying both that we trust you, and we appreciate your efforts on the wiki. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 08:54, 27 May 2005 (CDT)

*Thank you -- I will endeavour to live up to the high standards you have set. I hope you don't mind if I exercise this, later this week, by just slotting in the Scottish kings onto the Main Page, so that I can get to them quicker, for edits. May I say that Cunnan has fast become one of my favourite sites to visit and to contribute to, because of the peaceful and scholarly atmosphere -- something which I sometimes miss in Real Life, let alone on the World Wide Weirdness.
--[[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 04:40, 30 May 2005 (CDT)

==the mango issue==
In solidarity with your decision to delete the spurious mango page, I have researched and written a little blurb about the period relevance of [[mango]]s. --[[User:Elyas|Elyas]] 17:05, 14 Jun 2005 (CDT)

Thank you. I'm pleased everything has "worked out". --[[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 02:06, 15 Jun 2005 (CDT)

==England==

I have edited the [[England]] page with a view to creating links useful to those with English personae. With this in mind I have attempted to create pages for distinct eras, e.g. [[Anglo-Saxon England]]. I am not totally happy with the way that I have grouped the eras (I think an ''Angevin England'' page might be a good idea), but my English history is not good enough for me to do this with any confidence. Could you take a look at it for me and group the eras into what you think is useful from a cultural point of view?

not my question, but I'm not convinced by your middle eras. I guess i think more in terms of archeology than history. 1066 is a clear change, but changes such as gaining anjevin kings didn't really change the overall society.
*perhaps: Roman England/brittain, Anglo saxon england, anglo-norman england, medieval england
Weather medeival england starts in 1155 or sometime later, is a bit to argue.
[[User:Tiff|Tiff]] 02:44, 23 Jun 2005 (CDT)

== re: Arthur ==

Please edit away. I am actually not a big Arthuriana person, and have scant knowledge of the subject. But when I saw it was missing it seemed like such a critical thing for an SCA wiki. I figured if I started the framework then it would be easier for more qualified others to fill in the blanks. :) [[User:Sabine|Sabine]] 11:12, 19 Jul 2005 (CDT)

==Scottish Monarchs==

I took a look at the Scottish Monarchs list. Gosh you'rs doing a good job! I have a little template that I would like to use to pretty up the pages. You can see what I have currently on the [[Duncan II]] page. If you would like to see any changes to the template let me know on the [[Template talk:Scottish Monarch]] page. Using the template is pretty straightforward, but in case you are confuse by something, I'll write a set of instructions at [[Template talk:Scottish Monarch]]. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 21:21, 19 Jul 2005 (CDT)

==Garb==

Hi, I've done a quick page on [[garb]] the heraldic charge. See [[Talk:Garb]] for related issues if you want to comment on it. [[User:Conrad Leviston|Conrad Leviston]] 04:09, 7 Sep 2005 (CDT)

You asked me: <cite>Would you mind my undoing your re-direct, and turning it into a disambiguation, so as to allow the secondary, heraldic, meaning of ''"garb"'', as a stask of corn, to be recorded ? --[[User:Simoncursitor|Simoncursitor]] 02:38, 7 Sep 2005 (CDT)</cite>

:Looks like you have this taken care of. I like the new page. Thanks. --[[User:JakeVortex|JakeVortex]] 11:57, 21 Oct 2005 (CDT)

==re:Viking==
Sorry -- the "erased silliness" bit was about buses being an endagered species -- not the actual use of "viking" as a verb. I'm actually looking into the etymology of the word "viking" -- it appears to have something to do with a "vyk" or "creek", unless my Norse is worse than my Latin, in which case I'm dead wrong.

Of course, it could be like the Canadian use verb "jigging", which can mean "to dance a jig" or "to go hunting for small game". I've never danced a jig before, but I've been 'coon jiggin', greytail jiggin' and coney jiggin' (raccoon, squirrel and rabbit, respectively.

== Re: the North Pole ==

Go ahead -- the article was written as part of a vandalism spree, and I was so demoralized at that point that I just wiped it and went to bed.

Oddly, it has inspired me to do some research on the medieval concept of the "Ultima Thule", as the land beyond the northlands, the furthest extent of the world. I'll post an article on it, eventually.
[[User:Paul Matisz]] 20 Apr 2006, 01:30 EST

== User: 208.182.75.11 ==

Simon: Is it possible to block this yahoo for more than 24 or 48 hours (say indefinitely, or for 3-4 months at the least)? He keeps coming back and messing up articles, and I can see he's bee blocked multiple times?

Also, how does one block a user, or erase an entire article?
[[User:Paul Matisz]]

== Spoke too soon! ==

[[Religion in the Renaissance]] has been repeatedly vandalized again, looks like by the same people. I've corrected it.
Guilty parties: [[User:64.56.136.110]], [[User:66.4.125.11]] and [[User:208.182.75.11]].

It's not that I mind, so much, it's just that the vandalism is really juvenile. Makes you wish for a higher form of vandal.

== Credit where credits due ==
Keep on going Simon with your monarchs, etc. articles, but don't forget the [[Cunnan:Copyrights|copyright "policy"]]. I noticed that [[James I]] etc were mainly cut'n'paste from [[Wikipedia]] articles. Even the article is going to be added to or rewritten later, we should at least credit Wikipedia with being the source of the original text. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 15:13, 11 May 2006 (EST)
== Horses Branle ==
As far as I know, the [[Horses Branle]] is a [[dance]], not a particular [[dance step]], so I have undone the "dance step" category you added to the page. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]]
Sorry -- this was added because the article specifies the steps being used, rather thsn just describing the dance.

Martin Luther

2006-09-09T01:10:37Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 72.21.115.165 (Talk); changed back to last version by Cian

'''Martin Luther''' was the foremost figure of the [[Reformation]] in [[Europe]].

== References ==

* [http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther Martin Luther at wikipedia]

* [http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/wittenberg-home.html Project Wittenburg, an online collection of Lutheran resources]
[[category:people (medieval)]]

God

2006-09-09T01:10:15Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 72.21.114.48 (Talk); changed back to last version by User 144

'''God''' and the [[Church]] were important concepts in the [[Middle Ages]] and [[Renaissance]].

More about that '''God''' chap and some of his greatest mistakes later...
[[category:religion]]

Harold Godwinson

2006-09-09T01:10:02Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 88.108.30.242 (Talk); changed back to last version by User 144

Cunnan:Village pump

2006-08-14T03:48:54Z

Tobin: /* Content police :^) */ Oops, didn't log in.

Cunnan:Village pump

2006-07-28T01:41:19Z

Tobin: /* weird characters */

Cunnan:Village pump

2006-07-22T09:39:13Z

Tobin: /* Spam flood */ SORBS and captchas

Cunnan:Sandbox

2006-07-21T12:28:59Z

Tobin: /* spam filer test */

'''Note:''' This is the "Sandbox". If you want to test out some formatting or play around you can do so here.
----
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==blert==
{{Ref|ine}}
checking... 123. nothing has exploded.

[[Category:Test pages]]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Mary

Newbie testing please ignore.

==heading==

text here is a link to something known [[heraldry]] and something unknown [[squigglemoose]]

[[voice heraldry]] [[voice_heraldry]] '''Bold text''' ''fancy''
[http://www.silverdragon.org my site]
[[Image:Example.jpg]] <-- image

lets see how it goes.

test

=== spam filer test ===

should not fail

http://test.org

http://slashdot.org

This all looks good. [[SCA]]

test commit

http://cunnan.sca.org.au

Test commit: ahoy

[http://google.com non spam link]

test commit

harmless addition.

overflow

another harmless edit

specialist

YAHE

== Post upgrade tests ==
Comitting...

Testing. No schema changes?

Another test. 2006-07-12

== automatic gallery generation ==
<gallery>
Image:Engrailed.PNG|uhu
Image:Astrolabe.png|another image in the gallery
Image:Orange.jpg
</gallery>
{{Note | name=ine}}

==template?==
{{12th Century Life}}

User:Bot

2006-07-21T12:16:10Z

Tobin: Purpose change

This user performs several automated tasks. This includes the automatic blocking of users who edit from open relays.

MediaWiki:Sorbs

2006-07-21T12:14:36Z

Tobin: change SORBS user to Bot

Bot

Talk:Main Page

2006-07-15T02:51:46Z

Tobin: Reverted edits by 219.240.12.173 (Talk); changed back to last version by Tiff

==Cunnan Focus?==
Is this a medieval reenactment wiki or an SCA wiki? The whole thing looks like it has been set up presuming that the SCA way of doing things is the only way it is done.

So which is the truth? Is it a badly-designed medieval reenactment wiki or is it a SCA wiki that misrepresents itself as a medieval reenactment wiki?

: It's a medieval reenactment wiki, plain and simple, but wikis always reflect the people who contribute to them. Currently, the only contributors (as far as I know) are people from the SCA, so the design, content, the main page, and opinions are all SCA oriented. We write what we know. If you'd like to add non-SCA content, please go right ahead. [[User:Morgant|Morgant]] 11:36, 15 Aug 2003 (EST)

:Well, it was, way back when we started, a medieval reenactment wiki, and it still is but (almost?) everyone who contributes is in the [[SCA]]. I'd be willing to change the explanation on the front page if people think its misleading. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 12:23, 15 Aug 2003 (EST)

Not sure if this is the place to be but, my cousin recently passed away and has left my family and myself all his medieval gear, such a variety of bows arrows, swords, axes helmats, shields, tunics, chainmail and few cuffs and jewelary, if any one is interested in buying any of this stuff you can get in contact with me at adamwestisthebest@hotmail.com

Angela

==Arts & Sciences==
Okie dokie, re the crafts/sciences. What would you have things such as [[astronomy]] under? It could be argued that there are no arts in the SCA only crafts (or the emulation of period art, at any rate). I'll agree that no ''true'' science in done in the SCA but there are certainly people who apply themselves to the study of period sciences.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong (is this the first wiki argument? ;-) - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 14:10 6 Aug 2003 (EST)

:- Tobin: *I* feel that there's a number of people who do the 'crafts' of olde, and VERY few who actually do [[astronomy]] - and then they aren't doing the science of it, mearly recreating the 'elements' that were developed.
:Why not leave it as craft and see how many people actually object ? never hurt to irritate anyone :)

::Point taken but there are people that do astronomy and I dont think it should be thought of as a craft. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

:::When more than 3 people use test tubes and actually reinvent the wheel, rather than just follow someonelses work - sold. till then No Dice. The SCA does Crafts.

:::Follow someone else's work vs. reinventing the wheel? I think it's important to distinguish between science and scientific discoveries. Nobody's claiming to be making scientific discoveries - these have already been made. Think about it like Crafts - nobody's inventing new ways of doing things - we're trying to recreate what was done before. We're investigating science as it was done during the middle ages. I enjoy researching medieval cryptography - it doesn't mean that I have to invent new methods of frequency analysis. Also, and more importantly, Arts, Crafts & Sciences is a pain to say. [[User:Morgant|Morgant]] 11:22 11 Aug 2003 (EST)

==Arts & Sciences (again)==
A google search reveals something in the region of 1,500 results for "sca "arts and crafts"" but more than 7,500 results for "sca "arts and sciences"". I've never met an A & C officer and doubt I ever will (even if that is a more accurate term. Shoule we start calling all [[constable]]s "order enforcing people" just because some people think "constable" suggests that they are part of the police force?)

The point I'm trying to make is that, regardless of accuracy, people say A & S not A & C (if you were searching for A & S stuff on the web which would be seaching for?) If the SCA '''is''' a game then it really doesn't matter but there is no point in being non-standard. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 21:29, 25 Aug 2003 (EST)

[[User:Newt|Newt]]: Well let's start a trend, Tobin! We can slowly change the SCA to ''our'' way of thinking. Hmm.. I see what you're saying but I think with regards to the wiki we're just looking for ways of grouping topics nicely. There's nothing much to put under 'sciences', but you can very easily split up our 'arts' (which is currently damn huge) into 'arts' and 'crafts'. Re: knowne worlde handbooke... Sui does have a point!

:That sounds exactly like something sui would say ;-) It doesn't worry me if we add in a Crafts topic but taking out the sciences link (or going through that whole pointless "Crafts ("sciences")" thing again would be a bad thing, IMO. Split up the Arts link if you want and then add Crafts to the main page. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 10:23, 27 Aug 2003 (EST)

==Arts and Sciences (yet again)==
I can see we're about to have this argument again. Reading what was said in the previous arguments, I'll not change it back right now but, the fact remains people say A & S not A & C ("correctness" doesn't enter into it, this is an SCA wiki and in the SCA people say A & S) - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 14:00, 26 Sep 2003 (EST)

:yes.. and americans are ALWAYS right about everything.. *sigh* glad to see that u can atleast accept change though Tobin. Now can the hard link from craft -> science, be removed? they are different! - Ben

::The link isn't hard, any logged in user remove it. The link goes from Crafts to [[Sciences]] not [[science]]. Also using Arts and crafts on the main page means that anyone searching google for Arts and Sciences (which would be most going on the number of hits google returns) wont find Cunnan

::I intend to change the link back from Crafts to sciences. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

=="BE bold"==

I think this statement should be removed from the front page. Anytime i have been bold or attempted anything slightly .. erm.. off beat.. it has been quickly slapped down, and yes i am going to single Morgant out here. Either have the policy that this is to be dry and humorless and a totally informational database only or allow it to be more 'open' - of course, and this is an amazing idea - u could have BOTH!!

So the choice - I believe - is everyone, how do u want your WIKI to be?

as u can guess i'd like it to be more 'interesting'

:We want people to be bold as in adding content not as in making changes that run against the majority. I Agree SCA science isn't real science but the majority of the SCA still call it science (this is an SCA wiki).

:I never said that the wiki was supposed to be a place or mirth and merryment. In fact the whole thing started so I would have a place to put what I know about the SCA. The software is free the content is open. You're welcome to start your own wiki. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

::In fact I wasn't even discussing the science thing.. It was more a general 'thing'. but point taken. If i wanna add content 'dry and humorless it is' - Ben

*Given that I'm singled out, I guess I should probably reply. I don't think I've ever slapped anyone down - I have, however, edited some pretty weird stuff. I'd like Cunnan to be useful, with a polished, edited look. Articles should be useful before they're funny - if you can do both, that's great, if you can't, don't. [[User:Morgant|Morgant]]

== Styles of articles ==

With the above responses, how about we agree to dissgree?
Morgant wants polished articles, dry and informational, whilst I want interesting and informational articles.

Can we compromise, and do both, and aside from grammer [without changing the whole article] or spelling [which morgant does a great job of tidying up] how's about we leave the other articles alone?

there IS a certain amount of 'ownership' in having authored something, and if you wish to ADD to an article then go for it, but leave the orginal artical in place? this being a wiki, and us having a 'gentlemans agreement' about such things sound make for much better content and enjoyment all round - and redduce the .. erm.. 'bickering' ? - Ben
*Here's how I feel about this - if everybody restricted themselves to their own articles, this wouldn't be a wiki. If an article is inaccurate, inappropriate, or otherwise lacking, it should be edited. Not doing so would make for worse, not better content. [[User:Morgant|Morgant]]

:::Then unlock the page(s) you have locked, and accept my editing in return. _ Ben

::::There is a single protected page on the wiki, the Main Page. I protected it because the consensus is, or appears to me and the other admins I've spoken to, that Sciences, regardless of accuracy, is the term used in the SCA. You're welcome to edit what you like but page protection and database locks are used from time to time when someone insists upon making a change that runs contary to consensus (corretion of common misconceptions does not come under this) - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

::::: " [[User:Morgant|Morgant]] " - Ben

== front page counter ==
Is it working? i have been doing 15-20 articles a day and yesterday it went up 1...

you might wanna check it
- Ben
:Last time I looked into it, the MediaWiki page count tag only counts articles of a significant size. (D'you know what it is, Tobin?) I'm guessing that Ben's 15-20 articles are predominantly short dictionary-style entries (which Cunnan should avoid, really), and they're not counting towards the total. Once they're expanded, they'll be included in the total. [[User:Morgant|Morgant]]

:The articles need to be of some length (one line jokes and short dictionary style stuff wont be counted). They also need to contain at least one link. I'll have to check what the minimum length is. Also, if you're not logged in you might be served a cached copy of the page. I'll be moving this conversation to the village pump when I have time. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]]

Hey guys I am new here and i just need a little information. How would u say Whats in style in the renaissance language? It would be greatly appricitated if you oculd get back to me SOON!
Thanks Anonymous

==Dictionary-style entries==
Out of curiosity, why should dictionary-style entries be avoided? What if you can concisely explain something in 25 words or less (and include a link in it! e.g. [[acro-narcotic]])? The way I see a wiki to be, it's like a cross between a dictionary and an encyclopedia anyway: it's a quick and efficient way of obtaining information. And so, if I enounter a technical word in an article I want to be able to click on it and get a _brief_ explanation first.. and if people want to later they can add 10 pages of history and detailed description to it, and that's cool. Short, dictionary-style entries are a good building block to more complex, detailed entries. Feel free to convince me otherwise. - [[User:Newt|Newt]]

:I say they are often useful, however they are more a definition, than an article - they contain little information. If I looked up acro-narcotic and found a definition i might be happy, and I might not care if the article only had a definiition, and no examples. But if I looked up lemon and got only "a yellow fruit of the citrus family" I'd wonder why I bothered linking to it. And as a really useful wiki, i'd say It's the longer articles that define it. Just personal opinion - ie that I'd only count longer articles in the article count, but I'm happy with the short articles as definitions of tricky words or starting inspiration points for articles. [[User:Tiff|Tiff]]

:Whee! That got away quickly. By "short dictionary-style entries" I meant articles that consist of a definition with no re-enactment content or application, especially stuff lifted straight out of online dictionaries. I do think that making a stub article for further expansion, or defining technical or [http://www.sca.org.au/cunnan/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=Middle_English medieval] words are good things - defining what a duck is, not so much. There are other wikis to do that. [[User:Morgant|Morgant]]

:: There are other website devoted to Medjeeval all round. hasn't stopped u guys. Morgant i defined 'duck' because i was working from the most wanted articles list. I have reduced that list considerably. if some of them are basic entries deal. (as for lifting them, i haven't done that in a while - and if i do, i change it)- Ben

::: Hm, while I have no idea how old this conversation is, I'll put in my 2c anyway... I actually find the idea of removing pages from the "most wanted" list (by creating short dictionary entries) a Bad thing (tm) - because that way you no longer have a list of pages that need real articles (the point of said wanted list). I think the page should be used by people wondering what is missing in the wiki and that they are able to answer with some medieval information.

:::I do agree that giving a definition of medieval words is very useful - and a good starting place for articles, but don't do it just so the list is shorter... IMHO that list provides much useful inspiration for article-writing. :( - Taryn

==Changes to the Main Page==

Given that I can't change the main page, I guess I shouldput in a request here. Could somebody put in Royal Peers under peers. Also, I know they're special, but Knights should really appear under there too.

And to stick my oar into a dead conversation (how's that for a mixed metaphor), the medieval definition of science is different from the modern one. For instance music was considered a science. From a medieval standpoint arts and sciences is completely appropriate for what we do.

==tiff's suggestions==
my sugestion, feel free to revert it. Not happy with the spacing though - either too big (and more than one page width, or one line too small because the paragraph end spacing is two lines when it needs one.

put a font colour reference in, that probably needs to be deleted since I can't get it to do anything other than black.

* How about using boxes in a table format?
<Center><Table cols="3" border="1" bgcolor="#bbbbbb" halign="center" valign="center">
<tr><td width="70%"> New to wikis? [[wiki_newcomers_hints|Read here]] for handy starting hints and rules.</td></tr></table></center>
:This should help it standout for Wiki novices. You could even change the background colour, like I have. Also got text colour working during my editting. - [[User:Cian|Cian Gillebhrath]] 12:34, 23 Aug 2004 (EST)
* I think this is a good idea provided the box is similar format to the ones already on the main page (the different position and a new colour should make it stand out). The link should proably be something like "[[wiki_newcomers_hints|New to wikis? Read the handy starting hints and rules]].". "click here" links look somewhat unprofessional / unfriendly. - [[User:Tobin|Tobin]] 14:07, 23 Aug 2004 (EST)

Template:SCA Kingdom

2006-07-14T06:19:59Z

Tobin: fixed Æ

{| style="margin:0 auto;" align=center width=75% class="toccolours"
|align=center| '''[[SCA]]''' '''[[Kingdom]]s'''
|-
|align=center|
[[Kingdom of the West|West]] |
[[Kingdom of the East|East]] |
[[Kingdom of Middle|Middle]] |
[[Kingdom of Atenveldt|Atenveldt]] |
[[Kingdom of Meridies|Meridies]] |
[[Kingdom of Caid|Caid]] |
[[Kingdom of Ansteorra|Ansteorra]] |
[[Kingdom of Atlantia|Atlantia]] |
[[Kingdom of An Tir|An Tir]] |
[[Kingdom of Calontir|Calontir]] |
[[Kingdom of Trimaris|Trimaris]] |
[[Kingdom of Outlands|Outlands]] |
[[Kingdom of Drachenwald|Drachenwald]] |
[[Kingdom of Artemisia|Artemisia]] |
[[Kingdom of Æthelmearc|Æthelmearc]] |
[[Kingdom of Ealdormere|Ealdormere]] |
[[Kingdom of Lochac|Lochac]] |
[[Kingdom of Northshield|Northshield]] |
[[Kingdom of Gleann Abhann|Gleann Abhann]]

|}

Tenné

2006-07-13T06:14:04Z

Tobin:

<div style="float:right; margin: 0 0 1em 1em;">[[Image:tenné.PNG]]</div>

In [[heraldry]], '''tenné''' indicates an [[orange]], or tawney, [[tincture]]. It is extremely rare in English heraldry.
Sometimes classified as one of the [[stains]]. Occasionally called [[bruske]].
[[Category:Device heraldry]]

Cunnan:Village pump

2006-07-13T03:49:13Z

Tobin: /* Navigation links */

Device

2006-07-13T03:40:44Z

Tobin: /* Blank Device */ wiki syntax

[[image:Albert-von-Dreckenveldtarms.png|thumb|right|An example of a 'good' device. The Arms of Duke Albert von Dreckenveldt.]]

A '''device''' is the [[SCA]] term for symbol of a person or group. It is more properly known as an [[escutcheon]] or [[shield of arms]]. This is what people paint onto their [[shield]]s or sew into their [[clothing]] (or weave into their [[Chainmaille]], etc). Devices are a big part of [[Heraldry]].

The [[SCA]] has some standards for devices, and maintains a registry of charges. If you plan to register your device, you'd do well to consult a [[Herald]] before you get too bogged down in ideas. It's fine to work on the registration process on your own, but you will have to submit it to the College of Heralds for approval.

==What makes a good device==
*Simplicity
*As few [[colours]] as possible
*As few [[charge]]s as possible
*Every [[charge]] should be from pre-17th-century [[heraldry]] (sorry guys, no Loony Toons characters)
*A style that was used in pre-17th-century [[heraldry]]
*Repetition or mirror-imaging of a [[charge]]
*High contrast
*Identifiability

==Blank Device==
[[:Image:Blank-device.png|Blank device template]]

== See also ==
* [[Tincture]]
* [[Heraldry]]

[[Category:Heraldry]][[Category:Device heraldry]]
[[Category:SCAism]]